General Discussion

karynnj

(60,764 posts)

30. Not going to happen

Thu Dec 29, 2011, 09:44 AM

Dec 2011

It is long past when Hillary Clinton could have challenged Obama for the nomination. Your arguments don't make sense. On Afghanistan, Obama's "call" was actually LESS hawkish than the Clinton/Gates position. Clinton, Gates and McChrystal were the forces pushing for a mush larger escalation - while Kerry and Reed were arguing against that and Biden was arguing against COIN altogether. If your problem was Afghanistan, why not argue for a Biden run. Maybe it should be Biden who benefits from your embargo. That said, Biden would NEVER run against Obama.

As to "Obama's failures" that Hillary does not have - does that mean having actually passed healthcare reform, rather than not even getting the House and Senate to vote on your proposal?

Not to mention, you argue that the Republicans do not have a strong candidate in 2012 - and will in 2016. You then argue that we need the candidate you think stronger (Hillary) in 2012!

As to whether Hillary has anything to do with the calls - I would suggest that the probability is close to the probability of an ice cube remaining in the frozen state in Hell. Her public statements for years have been completely unambiguous - she is not running. (Not to mention, she has not raised money and many deadlines for getting on ballots are past. It is pretty undemocratic that you want a change that is not the outcome of a primary.)

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] SoDesuKa Dec 2011 OP

Hillary would have had the same Congress and same issues to deal with treestar Dec 2011 #1

Would Hillary jail the Banksters FreakinDJ Dec 2011 #3

Beneficiaries of a corrupt monetary system would be hard-pressed to levy justice upon it... Larry Ogg Dec 2011 #41

LOL Mr Dixon Dec 2011 #18

"And things would have turned out pretty much the same. " Charlemagne Dec 2011 #73

Right! treestar Dec 2011 #77

Why don't we Talk about an Al Gore America? orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #2

Or Nader, or Kucinich Major Nikon Dec 2011 #39

I fully support President Obama liberal N proud Dec 2011 #4

He is our only option Charlemagne Dec 2011 #72

No propaganda here will make me think Obama has done a good job Vattel Dec 2011 #103

I fully support the President liberal N proud Dec 2011 #106

That is a ridiculous claim. ("no propaganda claiming Obama has done a good job") Vattel Dec 2011 #109

I voted for Hillary during the primary NNN0LHI Dec 2011 #5

I voted for Hillary and contributed mightily to her campaign. bluestate10 Dec 2011 #101

As somebody who supported Obama, mythology Dec 2011 #108

Keep dreaming...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #6

If you think they hate the "Kenyan Muslim" TexasProgresive Dec 2011 #7

Why are you trying to stir up crap? Botany Dec 2011 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author SoDesuKa Dec 2011 #40

Do not put bull shit on toast and tell me to "eat up it is just country style apple butter" Botany Dec 2011 #52

It was GOP money that paid for those robocalls--make no mistake. MADem Dec 2011 #58

Lame and totally unworkable. Cooley Hurd Dec 2011 #9

PUMA crap. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #10

If you're suggesting that the people who were ardent supporters of Hillary in 08 would back this MADem Dec 2011 #59

+1. nt sufrommich Dec 2011 #62

I was a big 08 Hillary backer. I prefer President Obama now. No contest. nt bluestate10 Dec 2011 #102

HRC.. sendero Dec 2011 #11

I have two words for you: Ronald Reagan. moriah Dec 2011 #12

+1000 JCMach1 Dec 2011 #14

you have cause and effect mixed up, if you are implying the challenge led to the loss SixthSense Dec 2011 #17

The Republican smear machine was working overtime way before the election Major Nikon Dec 2011 #45

The Iranian hostage crisis. Adsos Letter Dec 2011 #55

I voted for Hillary in the Primary for exactly the reasons I feel Obama JCMach1 Dec 2011 #13

I would vote for Hillary over Obama at this point slay Dec 2011 #15

Hmmmm? ProSense Dec 2011 #23

I voted for Obama in 2008 and in the primaries - and he has been a total disappointment slay Dec 2011 #78

So you suspect HRC is behind the robocalls. That says alot. n/t lamp_shade Dec 2011 #16

. ProSense Dec 2011 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author SoDesuKa Dec 2011 #35

I think ProSense Dec 2011 #60

You cant call someone out to provide facts Charlemagne Dec 2011 #75

Since Hillary was raised republican, B Calm Dec 2011 #19

Think about what you are saying karynnj Dec 2011 #36

I disagree; I think you'll find many people who feel like this: muriel_volestrangler Dec 2011 #20

This message was self-deleted by its author SoDesuKa Dec 2011 #38

What I mean is your multiple personalities should argue among themselves muriel_volestrangler Dec 2011 #42

+1 nt MADem Dec 2011 #61

She isn't running. Not a worthwhile conversation. mmonk Dec 2011 #21

A person who isn't running could not possibly be "more effective" than one who is. baldguy Dec 2011 #22

Thank you. GoCubsGo Dec 2011 #25

uh yeah, NO. Schema Thing Dec 2011 #26

Ah jeez... WilliamPitt Dec 2011 #27

Pitt FTW n/t lapislzi Dec 2011 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author SoDesuKa Dec 2011 #34

Exactly what I thought. xmas74 Dec 2011 #46

This thread is an argument for the return of UNREC. MADem Dec 2011 #63

I doubt she would be.. 99Forever Dec 2011 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author SoDesuKa Dec 2011 #29

Not going to happen karynnj Dec 2011 #30

Stop. lapislzi Dec 2011 #31

Hillary just called to say how sweet A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2011 #33

This is a joke right? BootinUp Dec 2011 #37

Carl Rove thinks Hillary is the best thing the Democractic Party has. Life Long Dem Dec 2011 #43

This is really offensive and belongs in creative speculation cthulu2016 Dec 2011 #44

+1 MilesColtrane Dec 2011 #66

I'll rec...she's too hawkish for my tastes, but Obama has been a disaster... joeybee12 Dec 2011 #47

Hypothetical fantasy presidents are always better than reality. NYC Liberal Dec 2011 #48

Stir, stir, stir... one_voice Dec 2011 #49

Hillary is a TERRIBLE speaker Eliminator Dec 2011 #50

This thread has as much value as "Mothra v. King Kong" discussions alcibiades_mystery Dec 2011 #51

By far the best post in this entire thread! Kudos! onenote Dec 2011 #76

But she is never running for office again, so what's your point? MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #53

... CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #54

this is just the kind of thread meant to revisit old passions from 08 book_worm Dec 2011 #56

ofgs n/t librechik Dec 2011 #57

I cannot WAIT until CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #64

You have inspired me to start my campaign to draft Thomas Jefferson to run against Obama. MilesColtrane Dec 2011 #65

I'm mystified how Hillary improves the situation toddaa Dec 2011 #67

Apparently, this is the only way to CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #71

Motivate them to do what, exactly... Triangulate themselves? toddaa Dec 2011 #74

She improves it for the GOP looking for a Divide and Conquer wedge. Most of us aren't that stupid, MADem Dec 2011 #111

With all due respect Charlemagne Dec 2011 #68

I don't think I agree with this. dawg Dec 2011 #69

(cough) bullshit AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #70

Why is this even an issue? ohheckyeah Dec 2011 #79

Because Robert Reich wrote his daydream on the intertubes yesterday. CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #84

the daily dose of DU insanity cali Dec 2011 #80

Kinda like choosing between unflavored pablum and flavorless pablum. Two 3rd Way Democrats. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #81

I imagine you place much more faith in tea-leaves than I do. LanternWaste Dec 2011 #82

This is just nonsense. aquart Dec 2011 #83

It's silly to use Hillary to try to divide people against Obama gulliver Dec 2011 #85

reality check RainDog Dec 2011 #86

not a lick of difference MattBaggins Dec 2011 #87

You must think she's a highly manipulative, disloyal, & dishonest person. Bucky Dec 2011 #88

Total bullshit LiberalFighter Dec 2011 #89

True. Second term Obama depends on 2012 and 2014 Congresses. treestar Dec 2011 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author SoDesuKa Dec 2011 #94

This message was self-deleted by its author SoDesuKa Dec 2011 #93

Total Troll Botany Dec 2011 #95

And why should anyone believe that Hillary would be LESS likely rocktivity Dec 2011 #97

You make a good point. bluestate10 Dec 2011 #104

Bullshit. Lil Missy Dec 2011 #90

Did something just go running through here? tjwash Dec 2011 #91

YAWWWWWWWWN DeathToTheOil Dec 2011 #96

Hillary has said she will NOT run for elected office in the future, she's retiring ... Tx4obama Dec 2011 #98

OH NOOOO! Not this again . . . nt mistertrickster Dec 2011 #99

Hoo boy...... marmar Dec 2011 #100

She isn't running. eom tledford Dec 2011 #105

Thanks for all the hard work on our behalf. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #107

comedy gold. Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #110

lolsnort Lord Helmet Dec 2011 #112

A difference in style and "face" is meaningless and probably counterproductive TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #113