General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

23. Of course it isn't.

Sat Jun 30, 2012, 06:33 AM

Jun 2012

Although, in saying that, we do need to make a distinction between the original ideals of the Revolution, on the one hand, and the bloody mockery that Stalin and Mao made of those ideals.

There's nothing wrong, for example, with actually running a society on the principle of "from each according to her(and his)ability...to each according to his(or her)needs." The Stalinists never even tried to create anything like that.

There are a lot of historical possibilities to study.

We should look at people like William Morris, Rosa Luxemburg, the Krondstadt rebels of 1921(the last group in the USSR that came anywhere close to creating an anti-authoritarian model for life there)the Diggers(the writings of Gerard Winstanley still survive and are also neatly summarized in Leon Rosselson's "The World Turned Upside Down&quot and the collective values of some Native American and African societies.

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So many of us have been accused on here of wanting a Glorious Revolution. Let's get out with it! [View all] Zalatix Jun 2012 OP

dayum CleanLucre Jun 2012 #1

I wanna take this serious but the other day you posted that being gay was a choice and now I can't FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #2

I also apologized because that was a mistake. Zalatix Jun 2012 #5

Was not intended to be factually accurate... or something like that. LanternWaste Jul 2012 #164

gee, another Zalatix diatribe. and it's so original! cali Jun 2012 #3

Another pointless Cali response. Can't say I'm surprised. Zalatix Jun 2012 #7

you'll remember him when the revolution comes!111! dionysus Jun 2012 #94

cue the piranhas!! CleanLucre Jun 2012 #4

I don't wear asbestos. I am MADE of asbestos. Zalatix Jun 2012 #6

People should avoid you then, if they don't want to suffer from mesothelioma. You're toxic! MADem Jun 2012 #9

LOL I guess so! Zalatix Jun 2012 #10

.... crickets ..... CleanLucre Jun 2012 #11

We aim to please. MADem Jun 2012 #12

no real answer CleanLucre Jun 2012 #14

Nope, but things are steadily getting worse. Zalatix Jun 2012 #15

I think everyone's prices for everything--except, perhaps, real estate--are more expensive. MADem Jun 2012 #69

Fuck it agent46 Jun 2012 #8

The "Glorious Revolution" was something quite different to the French Revolution. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #13

The "Glorious Revolution" that was mentioned in the other thread referred to the Russian one. Zalatix Jun 2012 #16

Wow. Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #17

Wow, indeed. Your post is full of lies, denial and ignorance. Zalatix Jun 2012 #19

"This economy is rapidly approaching a point where it doesn't even need 95% of the population." CleanLucre Jun 2012 #108

"the only incremental steps we're taking are steps BACKWARDS." Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #117

You are absolutely correct about this: sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #147

Yup. Either that, or outright denial. Zalatix Jul 2012 #149

In reply ... Summer Hathaway Jul 2012 #152

To hell with small, incremental changes. WE NEED IMMEDIATE AND RADICAL CHANGE! Zalatix Jul 2012 #156

I was pretty sure Summer Hathaway Jul 2012 #162

LOL thanks for showing that you have nothing to back up your ridiculous argument. Zalatix Jul 2012 #165

Chris Hedges: Time to Get Crazy Zalatix Jul 2012 #161

Oh and I want to ask about a few more of your "small incremental steps" Zalatix Jun 2012 #20

Very interesting discussion here. I have no skin in the personal side of this back and forth, so I Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2012 #38

You hit the nail right on the head. Zalatix Jun 2012 #41

Totally agree DearAbby Jun 2012 #81

Ah...good idea...a 100% personal-free exchange of ideas forum. For that matter Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2012 #112

truth shall set you free CleanLucre Jun 2012 #87

Summer Hathaway is away right now trying to find examples of those 'incremental steps' Zalatix Jun 2012 #127

takes time CleanLucre Jun 2012 #129

you're quite the puffed up little popinjay, aren't you? dionysus Jul 2012 #146

Boy I just keep getting deeper under your skin. Zalatix Jul 2012 #148

This is so interesting JNelson6563 Jul 2012 #151

I haven't said a discouraging word to anyone who hasn't said one to me. Zalatix Jul 2012 #154

lolz That takes me back.... JNelson6563 Jul 2012 #157

Lolz that takes me back... "Everyone else is okay doing it, but you're not!" Zalatix Jul 2012 #158

Wow.. good response. DCBob Jun 2012 #54

Great post treestar Jun 2012 #58

Boom goes the dynamite... SidDithers Jun 2012 #62

yeah, summer just pwned the OP dionysus Jun 2012 #97

Love DU3's transparency... SidDithers Jun 2012 #115

Rec list suggests that 14 people say I pwned Summer Hathaway. Bet that hurts you a lot. Zalatix Jun 2012 #128

LOL.. you're lucky they got rid of unrec... dionysus Jun 2012 #132

Oh quit your whining about a lack of unrec. Besides, your champion has scurried off anyway. Zalatix Jun 2012 #134

my my, you seem to get quite upset when people don't like your opinion. dionysus Jun 2012 #139

Dang, you can dish it out but you sure can't take it, can you? Zalatix Jul 2012 #140

we seem to have a disconnect here. you're the one getting all angy and i'm the one laughing... dionysus Jul 2012 #144

We do have a disconnect here. It stands between your statements and reality. Zalatix Jul 2012 #145

Excellent response. great white snark Jun 2012 #68

Meanwhile, "Every day, almost 16,000 children die from hunger-related causes. That's Zorra Jun 2012 #76

But those are incremental steps forward, BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE and all that. Zalatix Jun 2012 #89

you win the thread. dionysus Jun 2012 #95

No, wait...let's see how the judges scored it... Zorra Jun 2012 #133

I hit Summer's irrational rage button. I hope she didn't explode. Zalatix Jul 2012 #141

People like you bob4460 Jul 2012 #142

We don't need "small, incremental steps". WE NEED MAJOR, RADICAL CHANGE! Zalatix Jul 2012 #160

Excellent post. Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #155

I wouldn't worry too much about it. JoeyT Jun 2012 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Jun 2012 #21

Yes, I agree. My point was some of us were being accused of wanting the 1917 Russian revolution Zalatix Jun 2012 #22

Of course it isn't. Ken Burch Jun 2012 #23

wow, kinda embarrassing that I haven't heard of the Diggers before Zalatix Jun 2012 #31

I thought it was embarrassing that you thought the Glorious Revolution referred to the Bolsheviks alcibiades_mystery Jun 2012 #44

Considering the context in which it was mentioned, and the responses that came from others Zalatix Jun 2012 #47

I think its more a matter of process rather than effect. DCBob Jun 2012 #32

At this point I don't ever see a liberal utopia happening. Zalatix Jun 2012 #35

A successful revolution doesnt necessarily mean the economy will improve... DCBob Jun 2012 #45

The American Revolution was particularly bloody, as was the US Civil War Zalatix Jun 2012 #49

A reduction in consumption always results in a slow-down in the economy. DCBob Jun 2012 #50

Standards of living can still rise, for everyone. Zalatix Jun 2012 #53

Our high standard of living is directly tied to consumption. DCBob Jun 2012 #57

Yes you have a point there. Zalatix Jun 2012 #84

Solar is the most likely replacement but.. DCBob Jun 2012 #125

We should be like Germany when it comes to solar power. Zalatix Jun 2012 #136

If our revolution CleanLucre Jun 2012 #88

I'll tell ya what... if we can put an end to campaign contributions, we almost win it ALL. Zalatix Jun 2012 #90

How to get CleanLucre Jun 2012 #96

Hell if I know. I can't figure out why the Democrats don't come out en masse for Occupy. Zalatix Jun 2012 #101

because CleanLucre Jun 2012 #107

Look what happens to Dems who color outside the corporate lines Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #119

And now character assassinations are a new weapon to use against true liberals. Zalatix Jul 2012 #150

No. Wrong end of the civil war. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #40

OK. Still, its results were purely reactionary, and helped create the "British Empire". Ken Burch Jun 2012 #121

That was the English Civil War, not the Glorious Revolution. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #52

I stand corrected Ken Burch Jun 2012 #120

I don't know about that Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #122

After the triumph of "Good King Billy" Ken Burch Jun 2012 #131

all of which is worse than forced relocation and slavery, how? Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #137

they destroyed any chance of reversing the forced relocation and slavery. Ken Burch Jun 2012 #138

Id like to see a revolution... minus the blood and the guillotines. DCBob Jun 2012 #24

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable" -JFK Fumesucker Jun 2012 #25

Alot of wisdom in that statement. DCBob Jun 2012 #26

It's quite possible cbrer Jun 2012 #27

Don't think there are many of us who actually WANT blood and guillotines. Ken Burch Jun 2012 #34

The OP seems rather partial to the guillotines, actually alcibiades_mystery Jun 2012 #46

I meant that as more figurative than literal. DCBob Jun 2012 #48

History shows that sooner or later there is an uprising against the oppressor. hobbit709 Jun 2012 #28

The last time there was a big social movement in this country EFerrari Jun 2012 #29

Ayup, now that is the truth. Zalatix Jun 2012 #36

However, we were successful in making great change becuase of those social movements!!!! robinlynne Jun 2012 #109

The Plutocracy needs it burned into their psyche that bad things happen cbrer Jun 2012 #30

You will be FLAMED as a Bolshevik Revolutionary for savoring that. Zalatix Jun 2012 #33

When I hear the term "Glorious Revolution" ... Laelth Jun 2012 #37

I don't think the op has a clue what the term means. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #42

Perhaps you need to actually read the cites I post? Zalatix Jun 2012 #51

.... crickets ..... CleanLucre Jun 2012 #91

I don't think it's *possible* to know what is meant by the phrase "Glorious Revolution". Occulus Jun 2012 #63

Really it is possible. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #64

The person who first made the "Glorious revolution" comment didn't know that. Zalatix Jun 2012 #79

Cromwell's civil war, that was easy nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #126

not the OP. he/she is referring to disgusting OP written yesterday, which called 1917 the glorious robinlynne Jun 2012 #111

Hey in the Crystal ball of yours.... trumad Jun 2012 #39

Take off the rose colored blinder glasses and you might be able to see the numbers on TV. Zalatix Jun 2012 #43

Come on now... trumad Jun 2012 #55

You are wearing them now. Zalatix Jun 2012 #59

Dude---- trumad Jun 2012 #66

Dude--- Zalatix Jun 2012 #73

I would say quit while you are ahead trumad NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #61

OH believe me.... trumad Jun 2012 #67

You will never be able claim that I am factually wrong. You have no counter argument. Zalatix Jun 2012 #75

And you will never be able to predict the future. trumad Jun 2012 #85

Well, I just did. And what I said is 100% correct, too. You can't refute anything I said. Zalatix Jun 2012 #86

You have to look at where CleanLucre Jun 2012 #98

You will never claim that I am wrong when I say this, because I am 100% right. Zalatix Jun 2012 #74

i've seen these same tired doomsday predictions for 12 years here. dionysus Jun 2012 #99

Those aren't predictions I posted. Those are historical facts. Zalatix Jun 2012 #102

that sounds CleanLucre Jun 2012 #100

Yep. "Reason" along with "knowledge" appear to be on short supply Number23 Jul 2012 #153

Yet you admit you can't show where I am wrong. Zalatix Jul 2012 #159

you don't have to predict the future CleanLucre Jun 2012 #93

Trumad's *cough* reasoning *cough* is much like this: Zalatix Jun 2012 #110

Nobody accused you of this, dear treestar Jun 2012 #56

HI Sweet Cakes bahrbearian Jun 2012 #65

DU Rec woo me with science Jun 2012 #60

I'd like to look more closely at what happened in the Scandinavian countries Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #70

thank you CleanLucre Jun 2012 #103

I think it's the case with me Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #113

"tension and anxiety and anger" CleanLucre Jun 2012 #114

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2012 #71

Really excellent post, Zalatix. Zorra Jun 2012 #72

Boy, did Carlin get it spot on much more often than he didn't. Zalatix Jun 2012 #78

If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone, anyhow MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #77

If you're going to quote Lennon, you should know that he later admitted he regretted those lyrics. white_wolf Jun 2012 #80

Wow. Thanks, I never knew that, w_w. You may find this Rolling Stone interview with John Zorra Jun 2012 #82

he knew CleanLucre Jun 2012 #106

+1 Zorra Jun 2012 #116

hey thanks for that link AsahinaKimi Jun 2012 #124

Oooh, I did not know that. Zalatix Jun 2012 #83

I hardly think you understand the French Revolution nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #92

Hey, if I'd been in Russia I'd have joined DevonRex Jun 2012 #104

I think we are too big, to divided and eventually something has to give Marrah_G Jun 2012 #105

For the 500th time !!!!....... RagAss Jun 2012 #118

Ths wouldn't have anything to do with cbrer Jun 2012 #123

Yes, The 1% Plan Is To Make Life So Miserable That The 99% Turn On Each Other cantbeserious Jun 2012 #130

Sarcasm noted. Because the 1% has never done that before in history. Zalatix Jun 2012 #135

Nice post n/t bob4460 Jul 2012 #143

During the end of the Victorian era through all of the Edwardian era LanternWaste Jul 2012 #163

Good thing all of you are here where we can keep an eye on you Capn Sunshine Jul 2012 #166

Tell that lame wisecrack to Anonymous. Zalatix Jul 2012 #167

Anonymouse is already where we can keep an eye on them Capn Sunshine Jul 2012 #168

LOL ROTFLMAO who's "we"? Zalatix Jul 2012 #169

who's going to bring the water? snooper2 Jul 2012 #170

we see stuff going on in Europe--what would trigger that sort of stuff here dembotoz Jul 2012 #171