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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
12. My point was the temperature at the pole is much less important then temperatures elsewhere
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 01:34 PM
Dec 2011

For example the West Antarctic Ice Sheet covers the area of Antarctica around the Antarctic Peninsula. That area has had temperatures ABOVE FREEZING. Thus the ice is MELTING and then refreezing at night. This is dangerous for two reasons, First is obvious, ice turn to water flows into the sea raising world sea levels, the Second is hidden and more dangerous. The ice melts and the water then seeps into cracks in the ice, re-freezes, and when water freezes it EXPANDS, thus putting pressure on the ice, which leads to cracks in the ice making the whole Ice Sheet Less Stable.

The point I was trying to make, and I admit I did it poorly, was to point out temperatures below freezing for the South Pole is of much less concern then the above freezing temperateness elsewhere on Antarctica.

The Antarctic Peninsula is in fact an island NOT a Peninsula, if you ignore the ice sheets that surround the Peninsula. Here is a map of Antarctica WITHOUT its ice, it clearly shows that the West Antarctic Ice Sheets are ice Sheets grounded BELOW Sea level:



http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Atlas_of_Antarctica

This is why the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is referred to the Godzilla of Global Warming, it is in direct contact with the Ocean, which can bring warmer water to act directly in the ice Sheets. This warming water can undermine these Ice Sheets and cause them to become Ice Shelves (The difference between Ice Sheets and Ice Shelves is Ice Sheets are grounded on LAND and thus displace only the water BELOW sea level, Ice Shelves, FLOAT on water and thus displace the same water as in the ice of the Ice Shelves.

In simple terms Ice Shelves can melt 100% away and have NO AFFECT on world wide ocean levels. On the other hand, Ice SHEETS (West Antarctic ice Sheet, East Antarctic Ice Sheet, Greenland Ice Sheet and the glaciers of the World) if they melt WILL RAISE GLOBAL OCEAN LEVELS (Greenland and the West Antarctic Ice Sheet about 4 Meters or about 20 feet each, the East Antarctic Ice sheet over 65 Meters).

The East Antarctic Ice Sheet is stable at the present time. It has very minimal contact with the Ocean (Anarchistic is the HIGHEST overall Continent on the planet. Asia and South American have taller mountains, but also lower low lands, i.e. The Amazon Basin and Siberia are MUCH LOWER then the Low lands of Antarctica, thus Antarctic wins the contest for overall height). This height makes the East Antarctic Ice Sheet Stable.

On the other hand the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is UNSTABLE for it is grounded BELOW SEA LEVEL, as you can tell by the above map of Antarctica which shows West Antarctica is nothing by a series if islands surrounded by water (if the Ice Sheets.did NOT exist). The Greenland Ice Sheet is also grounded ABOVE SEA LEVEL, thus is more stable then the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (Through the Greenland Ice Sheet has a huge section SOUTH of the Arctic Circle, unlike the West Antarctic Ice Sheet which is within the Antarctic Circle, thus Greenland Ice Sheet is subject to higher melting temperatures each year then the other Ice Sheets).

For these reasons the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is often called the Godzilla of Global Warming. Unlike the other two huge ice sheets, the West Antarctic Ice Sheet could break up and float within a day raising global ocean levels 20 feet over night. Greenland and the East Antarctic Ice Sheet would take decades to melt for neither has direct contact with the ocean. Thus the area around the Antarctic Peninsular is where temperatures have to be watched, and right now, at the height of summer they are well over Freezing.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

But ,NO it's a normal cycle. n/t orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #1
Facts have a well-known liberal bias. Science is Socialism. Etc, etc... nt onehandle Dec 2011 #2
NOT good, NOT good derby378 Dec 2011 #3
I don't know about Kilimanjaro, but the upper rurallib Dec 2011 #5
I was on top of Kilimanjaro five years ago (in August). former9thward Dec 2011 #17
Wow... derby378 Dec 2011 #29
It was. former9thward Dec 2011 #34
yikes... FirstLight Dec 2011 #4
This is meaningless happyslug Dec 2011 #6
Temperatures ON the pole can go up more before that ice melts mindwalker_i Dec 2011 #7
I am curious about your statements... xocet Dec 2011 #8
My point was the temperature at the pole is much less important then temperatures elsewhere happyslug Dec 2011 #12
Thanks for your detailed response. It is appreciated. xocet Dec 2011 #13
No, I just read a lot and have been concerned about this for over ten years happyslug Dec 2011 #16
In the dead of winter here in northern MI 17 isn't too bad JNelson6563 Dec 2011 #11
I gotta agree. AverageJoe90 Jan 2012 #55
Looks like 2012 will be as hot if not hotter than 2010. Definitely in top 5 hottest years. joshcryer Dec 2011 #9
How much ya got? Edweird Dec 2011 #20
How much you willing to risk? joshcryer Dec 2011 #21
Risk? There's no risk on my part. Edweird Dec 2011 #23
Ahh, so you would dismiss the GISS temperature record if 2012 was in the 5th hottest on that record. joshcryer Dec 2011 #26
You are aware that the Earth is roughly 500,000,000 years old, correct? Edweird Dec 2011 #27
Ahh, yes. It's clear I am discussing the instrumental temperature record. joshcryer Dec 2011 #28
The OP says "all-time" and yours says the 'top 5' - both of which are incorrect. Edweird Dec 2011 #30
But, I never intended your intepretion, and neither did the OP. And you know that. joshcryer Dec 2011 #32
What bet? You mean the one where I showed that we are nowhere near "All-time" highs? Edweird Jan 2012 #35
You're dismissing the instrumental temperature record. Should I even continue this with you? joshcryer Jan 2012 #36
How long have instruments been around? How long has the Earth existed? Edweird Jan 2012 #38
Ahh, my friend. This is too easy. Your graph "starts" at 1950 (+95 year delay). joshcryer Jan 2012 #39
So? That changes the preceding 10,500 years in what way? Edweird Jan 2012 #40
The Holoscene was relatively stable. joshcryer Jan 2012 #44
You're having a real hard time accepting geological history. Edweird Jan 2012 #45
Haha, now you're using hundred thousand year variance. How far back do you want to go? joshcryer Jan 2012 #46
The blue link is the 10,000 year record, but here it is a 3rd time. Edweird Jan 2012 #47
That's a 3C variance. Compared to the 100ky variance, that is stable. joshcryer Jan 2012 #48
It's not stable. Edweird Jan 2012 #49
Ahh, so you agree temperature rise of a mere 2.0C would be catastrophic. joshcryer Jan 2012 #50
Pope Innocent VIII was wrong, and so are you. Edweird Jan 2012 #51
So what do you think the CO2 is doing? Is there a mechanism to equal out the *physical*... joshcryer Jan 2012 #52
Dude, get real. In the grand scheme of things we aren't squat. Edweird Jan 2012 #58
We put more excess CO2 into the atmosphere than all natural sources. joshcryer Jan 2012 #60
Wow, sarcastic I see. Logical Dec 2011 #31
The Earth is 500 million years old? You're off by an order of magnitude. TheWraith Jan 2012 #37
At least he didn't say 6,000. He's got that goin' for him. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2012 #41
That was, unfortunately, 'off the cuff'. Edweird Jan 2012 #42
Yeah, my bad. Edweird Jan 2012 #43
So if you're so wrong about that, what else might you be wrong about? TheWraith Jan 2012 #53
By all means, go over it with a fine toothed comb. Edweird Jan 2012 #57
I assume you're holding yourself to the same standard. Edweird Jan 2012 #59
Scrapitalism. Kids there isn't a Santa, and there soon will be no north pole either. lonestarnot Dec 2011 #10
Good news for Santa. MilesColtrane Dec 2011 #14
"All time"? I don't believe that's remotely accurate. Edweird Dec 2011 #15
not just broken, but broken by ~10 degrees? Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #18
But... but... it's snowing in Michigan! There's no climate change! Fawke Em Dec 2011 #19
Not in southeast Michigan. marmar Dec 2011 #25
Well WE have snow! DeathToTheOil Dec 2011 #22
Sobering. marmar Dec 2011 #24
but...but...but CLIMATEGATE!!!!11 jpak Dec 2011 #33
Was Polar Temperature Increases Predicted? Dirty Socialist Jan 2012 #54
What does this have to do with Glenn Greenwald? DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #56
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