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In reply to the discussion: WaPo: Russia paid for Facebook ads encouraging Bernie supporters not to vote last November [View all]frazzled
(18,402 posts)88. See, that's still pushing a misconception
and a well-devised excuse for why she lost by less than 1% there. Facts are facts, and the facts are in the demographic shifts: the number of non-college-educated white voters.
There are several major problems with the idea that Clintons Electoral College tactics cost her the election. For one thing, winning Wisconsin and Michigan states that Clinton is rightly accused of ignoring would not have sufficed to win her the Electoral College. Shed also have needed Pennsylvania, Florida or another state where she campaigned extensively. ...
But most importantly, the changes in the vote from 2012 to 2016 are much better explained by demographics than by where the campaigns spent their time and money. Let me start with a couple of simple comparisons that I think pretty convincingly demonstrate this, and then well attempt a more rigorous approach.
Comparison No. 1: Clinton spent literally no time in Wisconsin, whereas Trump repeatedly campaigned in the state. Wisconsin turned red. But so did Pennsylvania, where both candidates campaigned extensively. Trumps margin of victory in each state was almost identical, in fact 0.8 percentage points in Wisconsin and 0.7 percentage points in Pennsylvania. That strongly implies that the demographic commonalities between Wisconsin and Pennsylvania both of them have lots of white voters without college degrees mattered a lot more than the difference in campaign tactics.
Comparison No. 2: As I mentioned, Trump campaigned a lot more than Clinton in Wisconsin, and it turned red. But Trump also campaigned a lot more than Clinton in Colorado it actually had the largest gap of any state in where the candidates spent their time. Colorado remained blue, however, with Clinton winning it by about the same margin that Obama won it by in 2012. The difference is that Colorado has relatively few white voters without college degrees, while Wisconsin has lots of them. Again, that strongly implies that demographics rather than campaign tactics drove the shift in the results.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clintons-ground-game-didnt-cost-her-the-election/
But most importantly, the changes in the vote from 2012 to 2016 are much better explained by demographics than by where the campaigns spent their time and money. Let me start with a couple of simple comparisons that I think pretty convincingly demonstrate this, and then well attempt a more rigorous approach.
Comparison No. 1: Clinton spent literally no time in Wisconsin, whereas Trump repeatedly campaigned in the state. Wisconsin turned red. But so did Pennsylvania, where both candidates campaigned extensively. Trumps margin of victory in each state was almost identical, in fact 0.8 percentage points in Wisconsin and 0.7 percentage points in Pennsylvania. That strongly implies that the demographic commonalities between Wisconsin and Pennsylvania both of them have lots of white voters without college degrees mattered a lot more than the difference in campaign tactics.
Comparison No. 2: As I mentioned, Trump campaigned a lot more than Clinton in Wisconsin, and it turned red. But Trump also campaigned a lot more than Clinton in Colorado it actually had the largest gap of any state in where the candidates spent their time. Colorado remained blue, however, with Clinton winning it by about the same margin that Obama won it by in 2012. The difference is that Colorado has relatively few white voters without college degrees, while Wisconsin has lots of them. Again, that strongly implies that demographics rather than campaign tactics drove the shift in the results.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clintons-ground-game-didnt-cost-her-the-election/
Silver sums it up with hard analysis and charts (at link):
Another, more rigorous way to address the question is by regression analysis. Accounting for where the candidates spent their resources makes almost no difference, it turns out, once youve controlled for one or two major demographic categories and the 2012 vote.
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WaPo: Russia paid for Facebook ads encouraging Bernie supporters not to vote last November [View all]
Pugster
Sep 2017
OP
So hard to guard against false flag trolls. Vibes to all the admins and moderators
applegrove
Sep 2017
#2
I'm in Wisconsin and voted for Sanders in the Primary (Clinton in the General)
Cuthbert Allgood
Sep 2017
#3
I saw a lot of it on the timelines of two friends- they're both prone to conspiracy theories,
bettyellen
Sep 2017
#5
Well said. I refuse to be gaslighted and told "none of this ever happened"
emulatorloo
Sep 2017
#111
I've yet to see one person who posted or retweeted RT or Guccifer admit regret.
bettyellen
Sep 2017
#83
It's amazing how many people mindlessly repeat that Republican talking point
Ninsianna
Sep 2017
#122
And to get to the bottom of it so it doesn't happen again. Head-in-the-sand denial is foolish.
brush
Sep 2017
#34
I remember seeing so many reposts about writing in on ballots and there were only something
bettyellen
Sep 2017
#30
I volunteered in MI during the recount, and there were enough to be pissing off
Ninsianna
Sep 2017
#47
You can probably find them. Russ Feingold joined Bernie at the one in Madison.nt
Autumn
Sep 2017
#72
I don't know where the transcripts are but here are links to a couple that Bernie did for her
Autumn
Sep 2017
#104
Fox is always full of shit because Fox news pulls those numbers out of their ass.
Autumn
Sep 2017
#108
He has a difficult time saying just her name. I think the propaganda worked on him too....
bettyellen
Sep 2017
#85
I had seen quite a few and then started clicking on "see less" like this. I just didn't want to
bettyellen
Sep 2017
#38
I explained to friends that those RT and Guccifer things were repackaged RW crap....
bettyellen
Sep 2017
#81
If you have apps that block all facebook ads, then you should disqualify yourself from this convo.
eggplant
Sep 2017
#36
I still don't understand why you seem get so defensive in threads about Busters?
emulatorloo
Sep 2017
#117
While only one is from the midwest I can count 5 family members and 4 friends who voted for Bernie
CentralMass
Sep 2017
#13
And three of my friends who voted for Bernie in the primaries opted not to vote for Hillary.
musicblind
Sep 2017
#61
"Casting blame seems idiotic and self defeating in that light. Get with the program folks."
Tobin S.
Sep 2017
#41
As Hillary said in her interview with Chris Hayes, Propaganda works. She is not blaming...
Hekate
Sep 2017
#40
It was just reported on CNN that the Russians placed thousands of ads on Facebook....
George II
Sep 2017
#86
I remember seeing something where that site was flagged as a "Fake News" outlet AND/OR...
NurseJackie
Sep 2017
#87
Well if the posts there from RT, Cenk Uygur and the Intercept are any indication
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#89
No one said that. He had to have benefitted from it to some extent, and it hurt him as well
bettyellen
Sep 2017
#99
How many were long time democrats & how many were new to the political process?
CrispyQ
Sep 2017
#103
Most people under 30 who I have talked to who lean left were adamantly against Hillary
Eliot Rosewater
Sep 2017
#106
The only reason Nina gets invited on these shows is that she and Donald Trump have several....
Tarheel_Dem
Sep 2017
#127