General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

274. Fine. But that doesn't have to mean we also can't have big ideas

Thu Nov 9, 2017, 04:55 PM

Nov 2017

In keeping it local, it still needs to be part of a larger totality. The San Francisco Mime Troupe had a good line about this in a song from their 1980s show "Steeltown".

Towards the end, a local Steelworkers union leader, having been forced to end a wildcat strike by the "International" leadership of his union in exchange for only trivial concessions from management, sings this

"We fight for little things,
We fight on little questions, shorter hours, decent pay
The question we are asking, is "who's to have the say?"
If we ask only little questions...and we do not ask for more
We may seem to win the battle...but still not win the war".

Act locally...but not just locally.

A broader vision matters and no one should fear a broader vision.

Dreams are not our enemies.

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So Tell Me, FUCKING AGAIN, How The Democratic Party Has To Change. [View all] VermontKevin Nov 2017 OP

Last night was a great victory! Chasstev365 Nov 2017 #1

"A better deal" is a fine message. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #5

"Ain't getting it?" KPN Nov 2017 #107

Here's how onit2day Nov 2017 #218

This is a cut and paste of a politician's fundraising email. lapucelle Nov 2017 #229

+1,000,000 George II Nov 2017 #271

Are you embarrased to give the source of this cut and paste? ehrnst Nov 2017 #232

This is a fundraising email from an Independent. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #243

Correction... lapucelle Nov 2017 #250

Not the original source, but someone on scout.com (in their political forum) posted this: George II Nov 2017 #269

You got quote marks. Where is your citation source. Thank you irisblue Nov 2017 #272

I agree Gothmog Nov 2017 #122

What proposed changes are you so frightened of? Ken Burch Nov 2017 #172

I am afraid of nothing proposed by Democrats. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #173

The vast majority of people proposing change ARE Democrats. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #176

Again, I am afraid of nothing proposed by Democrats. Perhaps you can VermontKevin Nov 2017 #177

There's no reason to make a distinction between things proposed by currently registered Dems Ken Burch Nov 2017 #184

I'm not making any distinction. I listen to Democrats about the Democratic Party. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #186

What matters is good progressive ideas that align with what we are about. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #267

No... those who don't belong to the party have no say..sorry they just don't. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #239

It's time to stop entertaining certain agendas. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #247

Yes...the idea that the party can be remade in a super left way in a center left country at best is Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #248

"working together" doesn't mean "mainly nominating centrists" Ken Burch Nov 2017 #266

What specifically leads you to incorrectly infer that? LanternWaste Nov 2017 #260

Some people can't be helped. wildeyed Nov 2017 #188

Yeah, but considering most low info voters tavalon Nov 2017 #203

Back to FDR. nt tblue37 Nov 2017 #258

I onlu hope the reason dems won is not because they aren't republican onit2day Nov 2017 #217

A win is a win...but many in Virginia ran on local issues...and that is always a winning strategy Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #241

Look at this newly elected person: murielm99 Nov 2017 #142

do you think dems won yesterday w/o the far left? questionseverything Nov 2017 #276

I am pointing out that this newly elected man murielm99 Nov 2017 #279

your answering things i didnt ask questionseverything Nov 2017 #280

All we have to do is GOTV and stick to the values of our former selves. mamas Nov 2017 #157

No one is arguing against that particular point... LanternWaste Nov 2017 #259

All the people w "constructive criticism" have disappeared for s bit. Seems they can't revel in our bettyellen Nov 2017 #2

Or maybe those with constructive criticism have been repeatedly told not to criticize? Ukapau Nov 2017 #70

It gets old doesn't it? KPN Nov 2017 #109

You reading my mind? Yup. Nothing to see. Ukapau Nov 2017 #154

That never stopped them before we won. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #117

Not interested MFM008 Nov 2017 #129

Well those anticipating losses and wanting to lecture others about them- what value was there in bettyellen Nov 2017 #163

A weak will would certainly obey the dictates of a suggestion LanternWaste Nov 2017 #261

I've criticized before, but I love this! Especially the Virginia delegate results! Lucky Luciano Nov 2017 #78

I agree. And yet I come here this morning and the first thing I read is KPN Nov 2017 #111

Oh please, we are all progressives....tired of that dance...how about a link to show us what Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #118

You'll certainly supply evidence to support your allegation, yes? LanternWaste Nov 2017 #262

Oh, so this OP is isn't constructive criticism. KPN Nov 2017 #108

Again...we are all progressives...aren't you happy about winning it is a big fucking deal you know. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #119

Yes, I am very happy. KPN Nov 2017 #133

How does this say fuck the progressives? It says no need to waste time on restructuring the Party... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #151

Some people take EVERYTHING personally NastyRiffraff Nov 2017 #164

They feel irrelevant if they can't threaten to take their ball and go home ... Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #236

We never gain votes by being less-progressive on any issue. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #185

Indeed. Allowing gun manufacturers immunity from lawsuits has won our Party VermontKevin Nov 2017 #189

I don't defend that. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #191

No asked you to defend it. Why do you think you must? VermontKevin Nov 2017 #195

Yes- We need to besupporting a woman's right to control her body bettyellen Nov 2017 #192

And you know that I support that, so what is your point? Ken Burch Nov 2017 #194

We're talking about the party being "progressive" enough- and they have been squalking bettyellen Nov 2017 #196

That was maybe two or three people and that that was immediately put in check. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #197

Yes we do...in red states moderate Dems win by not being super liberal...and that is a fact. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #237

I was never an advocate of primarying Manchin. And I don't live in West Virginia. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #268

That is correct...all politics are local...you can run a variety of Democrats depending on the seat. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #273

Fine. But that doesn't have to mean we also can't have big ideas Ken Burch Nov 2017 #274

Yeah it kind of does...don't nationalize elections with the divide we have now. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #275

progressive is a generic word like pro-life delisen Nov 2017 #222

Virginia Democrats turned out and carried the day yesterday. nt LexVegas Nov 2017 #3

Yes! peggysue2 Nov 2017 #134

K&R! betsuni Nov 2017 #4

Mostly agree greeny2323 Nov 2017 #6

Who, precisely, is too old? VermontKevin Nov 2017 #10

I want the new and the old. I want all of them. "Old" got experience which new does not. All hands Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #15

Thank you! tonyt53 Nov 2017 #53

Important point! pandr32 Nov 2017 #75

Hear, hear!! n/t sagesnow Nov 2017 #81

THIS sheshe2 Nov 2017 #112

Exactamundo! oasis Nov 2017 #138

This! A million BlueMTexpat Nov 2017 #225

+1 uponit7771 Nov 2017 #238

Stilted language is EXACTLY the problem. lagomorph777 Nov 2017 #39

Let me get this straight. So we have to do something different than last night to win? brush Nov 2017 #65

We are smart enough to make continuous improvements. That's how wars are won. lagomorph777 Nov 2017 #66

So speaking fast and using run on sentences... IthinkThereforeIAM Nov 2017 #85

OK smartypants. lagomorph777 Nov 2017 #86

Perhaps... IthinkThereforeIAM Nov 2017 #99

There's nothing in lagomorph777's sentences that shows any dislike of such skills. CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2017 #124

You may read it at your own reading speed, lagomorph777 Nov 2017 #127

Lol! cwydro Nov 2017 #159

My job is done... IthinkThereforeIAM Nov 2017 #190

Ah, no, you don't understand what "stilted speech" is muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #231

That is what I implied... IthinkThereforeIAM Nov 2017 #235

No, I don't think you understand public speaking muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #246

Going by the definition provided... IthinkThereforeIAM Nov 2017 #265

Someone reading badly from a teleprompter is "stilted" muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #270

Strategy is how wars are won...and running moderates ( in moderate states) Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #152

Confusing, isn't it? NastyRiffraff Nov 2017 #245

Many people will cheer the desire for commercial branding LanternWaste Nov 2017 #264

Party leadership is too old is bullshit. That is just an excuse. LiberalFighter Nov 2017 #43

No Trump appeal in VA and why would we emulate that loser. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #121

Simple BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #7

Who, precisely, is not clearly different from the Republicans? VermontKevin Nov 2017 #12

Anyone who says that the 2 parties are the same is lying & has an agenda. Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #17

Damn fucking straight. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #18

Anyone who does not see the difference is either gaslighting or covering their eyes. SO WHATEVER. Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #20

Apparently there are millions of people, literally, who disagree with you and KPN Nov 2017 #128

?????? Anyone who does not see the difference is either gaslighting or covering their eyes. Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #145

How do you know that? Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #153

This makes no sense. Bernie lost every truly liberal stronghold. Except R B Garr Nov 2017 #207

I guess that's why we win all the time then BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #26

She did. Can't blame her for those who don't listen. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #30

We're in no position to gloat BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #37

I disagree with that to an extent. whopis01 Nov 2017 #100

She did have a clear message pandr32 Nov 2017 #80

Both parties of the same has been wore out. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #47

And Barack Obama isn't giving meaningless speeches BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #49

Complete deflection. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #52

meaningless speeches ? stonecutter357 Nov 2017 #57

Yeah, heres what a meaningless speech sounds like BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #63

Transparent. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #71

Who is responsible for the politics of division again? BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #83

I absolutely agree with you, Beyondgeo! Why the heck keep it quiet about who the villains are? Ukapau Nov 2017 #87

Lots and lots of people and groups. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #94

Gingrich weaponized political language in the 90's and told fellow Republicans to never refer to Ukapau Nov 2017 #82

Well said BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #84

THIS KPN Nov 2017 #149

Great post! True Blue American Nov 2017 #223

Doesn't sound meaningless to me radical noodle Nov 2017 #160

This message was self-deleted by its author True Blue American Nov 2017 #224

I admire your willingness to engage along this line KPN Nov 2017 #136

Thank you, KPN BeyondGeography Nov 2017 #150

This is hilarious. You appreciate that someone can't accept reality that R B Garr Nov 2017 #208

Exactly. KPN Nov 2017 #148

+1 KPN Nov 2017 #115

I disagree...2010 was all about supposed progressives abandoning Pres. Obama for not getting Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #126

Looks like we learned our lesson treestar Nov 2017 #8

Totally agree. Blue_true Nov 2017 #93

+1 but don't want to hear it again .... lunasun Nov 2017 #9

We lost the white vote and STILL won. That should tell us something about ehrnst Nov 2017 #11

No need to appease or convince those who will not see their own noses. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #14

A year after Donald!! For a racist Gillespie. So charming. Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #21

White college educated came out for the democratic party yesterday Fresh_Start Nov 2017 #60

And they watch FOX and listen to right-wing radio -- we need a larger progressive presence in the Ukapau Nov 2017 #90

Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #141

No Democratic presidential candidate has won the white vote since LBJ, so... Garrett78 Nov 2017 #139

It's nothing but "bothsiderism": The GOP sucks, that's why the Democrats suck. DetlefK Nov 2017 #13

Tell us again, how we must divide ourselves and be conquered. L. Coyote Nov 2017 #16

So funny DFA calling Northam "racist" & not endorsing but Black Women payed them no attention. Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #23

+1 uponit7771 Nov 2017 #31

The Virginia race was a classic case of Republicans bringing out the Dem voters. L. Coyote Nov 2017 #41

LOL Gothmog Nov 2017 #125

MSM/GOP & naysayers trying to take the narrative from us DEMS! We are "Reclaiming our time" Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #19

Reclaiming My Time!!! VermontKevin Nov 2017 #22

LOVE THIS SO MUCH!! Thank you for posting this!! NurseJackie Nov 2017 #24

Love this, BlueMTexpat Nov 2017 #226

Thank you! mcar Nov 2017 #25

IMO, we need to introduce UBI and define it for over 40 and no job. CK_John Nov 2017 #27

If it's only for over 40 and no job Codeine Nov 2017 #33

UBI is a process that has to be defined, age 40 is my personal solution. CK_John Nov 2017 #46

I'm not arguing against UBI at all. Codeine Nov 2017 #59

Pls start by defining what UBI stands for for those of us who don't know. brush Nov 2017 #68

Universal Basic Income radical noodle Nov 2017 #161

The minute we run on UBI GulfCoast66 Nov 2017 #72

But how do you ensure that all have Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2017 #205

kick and rec! JustAnotherGen Nov 2017 #28

K&R Progressive dog Nov 2017 #29

It was that damn establishment Democrat LBJ who pushed for the civil rights and voting rights act. still_one Nov 2017 #32

But they Party is changing! Look at the diversity among those elected last night. airmid Nov 2017 #34

Diverse racially and ethnically and diverse politically. Blue_true Nov 2017 #95

Yup. And that's a good thing. KPN Nov 2017 #144

Wait a few days Progressive dog Nov 2017 #35

You'd better believe it. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #36

Not *all* of them. (If you know what I mean...) NurseJackie Nov 2017 #38

It already has changed DBoon Nov 2017 #40

The organizing effort to make last night happen began months ago with Wwcd Nov 2017 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author WinkyDink Nov 2017 #42

The only change needed is better GOTV efforts. MineralMan Nov 2017 #44

Agreed rpannier Nov 2017 #220

Sure it has to change. LiberalFighter Nov 2017 #45

I'm not convinced that a huge anti-Trump surge means we now own the road. I'm a liberal brewens Nov 2017 #48

The Dem Party needs to study what happened, so it can try to repeat it. We need to WIN. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #54

"The Dem Party needs to study what happened"??? Wwcd Nov 2017 #69

agreed Locrian Nov 2017 #167

Let's not be so divisive just yet. Can't we enjoy the huge victory w/o bickering? Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #50

Thank you so much for that! KPN Nov 2017 #147

We must not do what is left, right, or centrist... DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2017 #51

Thank you! Thekaspervote Nov 2017 #55

Kick, kick, kick & Rec! UtahLib Nov 2017 #56

All we need to do is GET OUT THE VOTE The Mouth Nov 2017 #58

That's the real world of politics in a nutshell. L. Coyote Nov 2017 #76

Two hours of driving people to the polls on Election day The Mouth Nov 2017 #135

It's about grass roots organizing bucolic_frolic Nov 2017 #61

When we vote we win world wide wally Nov 2017 #62

This post pretty much answers itself Cosmocat Nov 2017 #64

Exactly this. Kentonio Nov 2017 #77

This. shanny Nov 2017 #88

We have 85 yards to go... Duncan Grant Nov 2017 #155

Cap locked profanity? Let me clutch some FUCKING PEARLS! VermontKevin Nov 2017 #244

Oh goodie, I know how to push your buttons. Duncan Grant Nov 2017 #251

Yes. Me laughing at your objection to profanity is obvious evidence that you have VermontKevin Nov 2017 #254

Poor anonymous irrelevant internet message board poster... Duncan Grant Nov 2017 #255

...that you spend time answering. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #256

Fish meet barrel. That was too easy. Duncan Grant Nov 2017 #257

Exactly. Owl Nov 2017 #230

Im happier than anyone angrychair Nov 2017 #67

The Democratic Party has to change ... Dr Rise Nov 2017 #73

I am also just as happy or happier than everyone here! denvine Nov 2017 #74

Great wins last night hueymahl Nov 2017 #79

We definitely had a very good night last night. awesomerwb1 Nov 2017 #89

The party is changing and its working. aikoaiko Nov 2017 #91

Perez is doing an awesome rebuilding job. Blue_true Nov 2017 #92

You're asking for it IronLionZion Nov 2017 #96

I think it would be a mistake. Snackshack Nov 2017 #97

Too late. It's already been mistaken by some it appears. KPN Nov 2017 #104

Phil Murphy ran as JustAnotherGen Nov 2017 #227

Really? This is how you celebrate a good night for the Democratic Party? KPN Nov 2017 #101

+1 HopeAgain Nov 2017 #106

Sorry that you define "progressive" as being against what I stated in the OP. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #123

You know what you're doing melman Nov 2017 #131

Tell us all what you think I am doing. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #137

Why would I bother to do that melman Nov 2017 #170

We competed in all of the down ticket races. That is the main change. mjvpi Nov 2017 #102

All we have to do is vote. If we all voted, we'd never lose. Iggo Nov 2017 #103

AMEN! samnsara Nov 2017 #105

K&R ismnotwasm Nov 2017 #110

The Democratic Party needs to continue growing, evolving, and adapting to win. klook Nov 2017 #113

yup- tell me again that the democratic party doesn't have a message LVNVblue Nov 2017 #114

Thank you Kevin...they are at it but have been shown to be completely wrong. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #116

From Tom Perez Gothmog Nov 2017 #120

We were united against Trump. And that is a very good thing Tom Rinaldo Nov 2017 #130

Thank you for serving democracy MaryMagdaline Nov 2017 #132

It seems you are spoiling for a fight tavalon Nov 2017 #140

Tell me how bad a candidate Hillary is after getting 3.5 million more votes. librechik Nov 2017 #143

The Democratic Party needs to figure out what just happened and how, and do more of it. Orsino Nov 2017 #146

GOTV is key. We have the numbers. We have the message. We need to DO. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #174

My State, Washington, apparently had 22% voter turn out tavalon Nov 2017 #193

Sounds as though hardline conservatives weren't feeling it. Orsino Nov 2017 #249

I have been comfortable where Dems are all along the way. A lot of noise to disrupt and divide, SandyZ Nov 2017 #156

It's not actually tavalon Nov 2017 #198

The Democratic Party has never supported Citizen's United and have worked to eliminate it. SandyZ Nov 2017 #199

Only the liberals of the party. Hope that clears up your confusion tavalon Nov 2017 #202

If you know Democratic Leaders are against Citizen's United, then I see no reason for discussion. SandyZ Nov 2017 #206

With their words tavalon Nov 2017 #212

Clinton pledges constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United ruling SandyZ Nov 2017 #215

K&R!! Thank You!! So sick of the constant undermining R B Garr Nov 2017 #158

Fox host melts down as DNC chairman Perez gloats over Tuesday's big election wins Gothmog Nov 2017 #162

Backlash voting is not sustainable. Otherwise you ping pong between failures. egbertowillies Nov 2017 #165

Kindly point to the non-Progressive Democratic winners last night. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #175

Thank you for this post. The Wielding Truth Nov 2017 #209

Instead of the top of the ticket pulling votes to the polls The Polack MSgt Nov 2017 #166

Thank you!! brer cat Nov 2017 #168

this kind of gloating is ridiculous. You know this was a referrendum on Trump and the GOP right? JCanete Nov 2017 #169

Last night was a big win. Thanks for your personal efforts. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #171

let's be real Skittles Nov 2017 #178

Disgust doesn't get people to the polls. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #180

OH YES IT ABSOLUTELY DOES Skittles Nov 2017 #181

No. Hope gets people to the polls. Hope that things will change. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #187

... Skittles Nov 2017 #213

What made her get off her barstool and to the polls? VermontKevin Nov 2017 #240

The hell it doesn't. Disgust with all things tRump* is the number one issue... Raster Nov 2017 #253

With this edition of the GOP/Trumpy, Eyeball_Kid Nov 2017 #179

In a fair fight, we win Generic Other Nov 2017 #182

Say it, brother. George II Nov 2017 #183

This paragraph from Rude Pundit said it best. robertpaulsen Nov 2017 #200

Okay tavalon Nov 2017 #201

I am the liberal wing. The base. VermontKevin Nov 2017 #204

I can't come to your meetings tavalon Nov 2017 #211

The Only One . . . DarthDem Nov 2017 #221

Instead of arguing for voter registration drives, do one. A table, forms, and some posterboard is VermontKevin Nov 2017 #242

I'm a 12 hour nightshifter so I've been trying to drum up support, rather than doing it myself tavalon Nov 2017 #281

... LexVegas Nov 2017 #210

Well -- do you think Tom Perez is improving things? I sure do! Yeah, Tom! Ukapau Nov 2017 #214

Ill tell you EXACTLY how we have to change Nevernose Nov 2017 #216

It was a great night and hoping the remaining in 5 HoD in Va tilt our way rpannier Nov 2017 #219

Is this a trap? If I answer the question you posed joet67 Nov 2017 #228

We must change and evolve.. Magoo48 Nov 2017 #233

A great deal of the Democratic win was a rejection of not only Trump, but the Dustlawyer Nov 2017 #234

Kevin saidsimplesimon Nov 2017 #252

Evolution works much better than revolution. LanternWaste Nov 2017 #263

Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #277

Well, here IMHO... Orange Free State Nov 2017 #278