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(3,284 posts)
115. I completely agree with your statement
Sun Aug 2, 2015, 01:48 AM
Aug 2015

It is an incontrovertible fact that many many people judge the validity of an idea by who supports that idea whom they happen to like, rather than actually trying to understand the idea in any kind of objective way.

So we get: "If So-and-so supports it, it's got to be good, so I support it too".

Using popular "leaders" to focus and guide public acceptance of a questionable new policy idea that might actually be a detriment, is the oldest trick in the ruling elites' book.

In fact, that is the entire story of the Reagan administration's success with the American working class,
whom his administration abused terribly and without respite in a series of hurtful policies
that people loved him for regardless.

A similar thing is happening here with Obama and TPP, I'm afraid.

Obama did say he admired the Reagan Presidency (for its effectiveness, I presume).
But with TPP, he's borrowing a POLICY and PHILOSOPHY page as well as a public relations one.

TPP is right out of the neoliberal U of Chicago/Milton Friedman's playbook.
But U of Chicago is Obama's Alma Mater, so maybe it should come as no surprise, eh?

Australia doesn't believe in trade with other nations??? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #1
You've gotta try harder than that n2doc Aug 2015 #2
(Shrug) It's good enough for Obama. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #3
Yes, because Obama is quite up front about his corporate leanings. Only the GOP djean111 Aug 2015 #5
Actually you have that a little twisted ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #11
If a majority of the Democratic base favors it, then they have no idea what it really is, djean111 Aug 2015 #12
Either way, the Democratic base polls as supporting the TPP ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #15
To be clear, I base my hatred of the TPP on what I have seen leaked about it, and what djean111 Aug 2015 #48
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #49
Better than just being a lemming, following the "D" on a jersey. n/t djean111 Aug 2015 #50
And anonymous sources ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #52
Any discussion will be moot. Fast Track. djean111 Aug 2015 #53
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #54
That was my point. But they have pretty much the same objections. djean111 Aug 2015 #55
Agreements that haven't been reached. Look ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #56
You are completely discounting the leaks, and the very detailed objections djean111 Aug 2015 #57
Well ... Yeah. Why get hot and bothered about discussion points ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #58
By the time they are IN the agreement, fast track kicks in, and all we can do is watch. djean111 Aug 2015 #59
Well, if the bad stuff is in the agreement ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #60
Oh, no worries - and I mean this, honestly, in the nicest possible way - djean111 Aug 2015 #62
Thank you. 840high Aug 2015 #108
How long is it classified? Ned Flanders Aug 2015 #67
This canarnd has been raised before ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #74
Elitist. Or condescending. These are the new negative buzzwords without content. erronis Aug 2015 #70
I'm sorry you didn't have a better weekend ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #76
That's odd--my two Dem senators report 1% of calls and emails in favor eridani Aug 2015 #78
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #81
You and every other defender of TPP are doing that eridani Aug 2015 #85
Where have I "defended" TPP? ... Please don't just disappear ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #92
You're defending the supporters of TPP progressoid Aug 2015 #97
Yeah, okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #101
If you don't support it, why cite polling that Democratic voters support it? eridani Aug 2015 #98
Because .... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #103
Sorry--hard to keep track of subthreads sometimes. n/t eridani Aug 2015 #104
True ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #107
There seems to be a lot of what you describe going on 'ound ere n/t GitRDun Aug 2015 #100
??? 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #105
I completely agree with your statement nikto Aug 2015 #115
The Democratic base favors it? Not that I heard. bread_and_roses Aug 2015 #14
I was referring to a poll of Democratic and republican voters ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #16
The AFL-CIO is stupid? bread_and_roses Aug 2015 #18
Please understand ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #19
It's just that too many people view politics as team sport... Salviati Aug 2015 #30
Nice how YOU inject the word "stupid", and then accuse me of saying that. djean111 Aug 2015 #116
Where did I say there is no way to know what's in the TPP? ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #117
Then there is no reason for the Democratic base to be FOR it, either. djean111 Aug 2015 #118
... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #119
I believe this conversation started when you said that the Democratic base was for djean111 Aug 2015 #120
No ... the conversation start with someone saying ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #121
If no one actually knows what is in the TPP, the poll is pointless. djean111 Aug 2015 #122
I agree; but, it does refute the initial comment about who supports the TPP ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #123
My posts concerning the support for the TPP have always been about Congress and Obama. djean111 Aug 2015 #124
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #125
Look likes the best we can do. I am for it. djean111 Aug 2015 #126
I ask because the Iran Deal played/plays out exactly like the TPP ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #127
The Iran deal will not affect the daily lives of almost everybody. I am counting all of the "trade djean111 Aug 2015 #128
Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #129
They don't. However, it's heavily favored by the swooners and that's all that matters to swooners. PSPS Aug 2015 #36
I think that would be the 'corporate base' favors it. You know, the Waltons for example. jalan48 Aug 2015 #69
Corporations want it. That should be a big red flag. Environmentalists don't want it. rhett o rick Aug 2015 #72
Be that all as it may ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #79
That's like standing on the train track and saying that you will wait until after the rhett o rick Aug 2015 #82
Okay. I disagree; but, okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #83
Don't forget the Hillary supporters.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #45
Except that she won't come out against it. villager Aug 2015 #64
Actually I disagree. I haven't found anyone that provides any arguments in favor of the TPP. rhett o rick Aug 2015 #73
Some of them are for it because Liberals are against it.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #87
I see it differently. First of all they have no idea what liberal means. Some will tell you that rhett o rick Aug 2015 #89
Those are the Dems STILL running away from the 40 year old "Tax & Spend" moniker. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #95
And Corporate America. Notice that no major corporation is lobbying against this. rhett o rick Aug 2015 #68
For one thing, Australia believes cheaper generic medicine should be available before djean111 Aug 2015 #4
Thats what family members living in Austraila told me too FreakinDJ Aug 2015 #28
I was echoing the argument used by those that favor the TPP.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #46
Thank you!!!! I have seen that crap argument stated seriously, as if we were all just born djean111 Aug 2015 #47
I disagree. bvar22 Aug 2015 #66
he was right restorefreedom Aug 2015 #94
STRAWMAN. No one made that claim. Insinuating questions are logical fallacies. nm rhett o rick Aug 2015 #61
Standard Beltway formula. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #86
Standard Fox Noise formula. You can make any ridiculous statement you want if you rhett o rick Aug 2015 #88
What the TPPA means for New Zealand ( posted in another thread) fingrin Aug 2015 #6
Extremely helpful! snot Aug 2015 #39
Pharmacare is Canada's version of New Zealand's Pharmac. We buy generic and negotiate prices Monk06 Aug 2015 #132
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #7
This treaty is only wanted by and only helps international corporations. marble falls Aug 2015 #8
"walks away"?? DCBob Aug 2015 #9
looks to me like Drug Corp. issues is the stickie point with most countries in this trade agreement. Sunlei Aug 2015 #24
I think a compromise in the works. DCBob Aug 2015 #31
Good malokvale77 Aug 2015 #10
The U.S. would push this "trade" deal even if it were the only country left at the table. It is not GoneFishin Aug 2015 #13
^^^^*THIS!^^^^^ SoapBox Aug 2015 #25
didn't you know? Corporations already control our gov and change/write laws to suit their interests. Sunlei Aug 2015 #29
Yep, but they want their own courts as well. SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #37
And laws can be changed if enough seats in the house and senate change hands. This way they GoneFishin Aug 2015 #109
Exactly. SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #111
That "wait to judge" ploy is preposterously stupid, as is anybody gullible enough to fall for it. GoneFishin Aug 2015 #113
BINGO harun Aug 2015 #110
So ... China's not one of the "Big Four" ? How does that work ? eppur_se_muova Aug 2015 #17
China is not in on this trade deal. Sunlei Aug 2015 #22
A Pacific trade deal w/o China ?? Very relevant, LOL ! nt eppur_se_muova Aug 2015 #23
This specific "Trade treaty" has been worked on for almost 7 years. China has other trade deals. Sunlei Aug 2015 #26
Yeah, I know. But it looks like China can upset the applecart if it wants. eppur_se_muova Aug 2015 #27
you're right,china could be upset and their stock market may reflect this. Sunlei Aug 2015 #34
Interesting interpretation. eppur_se_muova Aug 2015 #35
The fake island China built in the middle of all those smaller countries fishing sea shows the Sunlei Aug 2015 #41
The rationale for the U.S. "pivot to Asia" embodied in TPP is to counter Chinese economic strength hedda_foil Aug 2015 #130
I think that was sort of the point of the deal. DCBob Aug 2015 #32
Supporters of the TPP claim one of the points of the deal is to weaken China. (nt) jeff47 Aug 2015 #63
Or to find WMDs. Or help Afghan women. Or control the influx of communism. nt valerief Aug 2015 #71
Thank you Australia. jwirr Aug 2015 #20
Yes -- now shut the door. NCjack Aug 2015 #42
"Concerns around automotives, data protection of biologics, dairy and sugar" I read last year about Sunlei Aug 2015 #21
At least someone TBF Aug 2015 #33
GOOD. nt SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #38
Great thread; K&R'd! snot Aug 2015 #40
Thank you Australia Michigan-Arizona Aug 2015 #43
Good for Australia daleo Aug 2015 #44
Obviously, Australians are far smarter than Americans. lark Aug 2015 #51
Until we the people are given the opportunity to saidsimplesimon Aug 2015 #65
I'm so torn up over this... Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #75
I'm torn about when I can officially start celebrating TPP's demise! villager Aug 2015 #77
I'd say it's too soon for that Jack Rabbit Aug 2015 #80
Well, there will be that whole "saving the planet" thing villager Aug 2015 #84
As I see it, the computer/robot singularity will occur before we destroy the planet. rhett o rick Aug 2015 #90
We'll be "deleted?" villager Aug 2015 #91
I think our dependence will continue to grow. But they reach the point of rhett o rick Aug 2015 #93
Right. Their "singularity gathering" won't even involve us. villager Aug 2015 #99
I won't be remotely sad.... blackspade Aug 2015 #96
Let's hope this is just the beginning.. raindaddy Aug 2015 #106
Good! raindaddy Aug 2015 #102
Whatever jackass wrote that should be fired they didnt walk away from shit. cstanleytech Aug 2015 #112
This is potentially HUGE, and wonderful! nikto Aug 2015 #114
I'm hoping that some of the other Island/Countries will follow Australia, bvar22 Aug 2015 #131
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