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Behind the Aegis

(56,184 posts)

78. And the problem?

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 02:03 PM

Jun 2016

You said: "Someone who is a man (identifies as a man, presents as a man, is not transgender)" and then "since asking someone to prove their gender identity is, by law, discriminatory and not legal."

One isn't required to "prove" anything in that situation. If an employee asks, "Are you female?" and he answers "No." then he is in the wrong bathroom. From what I gathered, they didn't even ask him. If he answers, "Yes" but there appears to be a problem the person is lying, then the law will need to be corrected in a way which will address those type of situations, how ever rare, because, it appears it is the rare cases which have too many people cowering in fearmongering.

What I find troubling, is the TERF mentality and use of "natal" by people pointing out exceptions, not what is actually happening (not referencing you). There will always be ways to get around laws, some legal, some not. It is the legal ways, loopholes, which need to be addressed, but the rights of the many don't need to trump the rights of the few.

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Georgia ACLU director resigns over transgender fight [View all] AntiBank Jun 2016 OP

Good riddance to bad rubbish Liberalagogo Jun 2016 #1

Well, dark forest Jun 2016 #3

No idea what you mean by that. Liberalagogo Jun 2016 #5

Just hate dark forest Jun 2016 #7

you mean a wrong turn by this supoosed "liberal" woman? Liberalagogo Jun 2016 #8

And she headed up the local ACLU? BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #2

My kids were visibly frightened. I was scared. And I was ill-prepared to answer their questions,� AlbertCat Jun 2016 #4

Sounds like a made up story. yardwork Jun 2016 #29

Some "progressive"... progressive parents are never "ill prepared" secondwind Jun 2016 #42

Many women, especially ones who have been raped or assulted when they were girls, Boudica the Lyoness Jun 2016 #6

My young daughter is not a "man" or a "boy" Crash2Parties Jun 2016 #10

speaking of over the top rhetoric AntiBank Jun 2016 #11

That's not over the top at all. Transphobe just got told. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #14

it's not only over the top but it's sexist as hell AntiBank Jun 2016 #16

I would agree the b word is slightly over the top, but telling a bigot to sit down and shut up? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #17

I will agree with you, I just do not think trans people do their cause any good when they slide AntiBank Jun 2016 #18

Its largely inconsequential, particularly to the larger culture, and not so much "anti-female" as... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #19

"Its still used quite liberally(pardon the pun) in the larger culture, even by women." Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #20

Precisely, and why its inconsequential. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #21

"People need to get that TERF shit off this board." Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #22

Its just really aggravating and just insane, protect the privacy of, I guess in their heads... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #23

And once again, I must say "THANK YOU!" Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #120

All I did was bring it to Skinner's attention, tried to alert, then alerted on the failed alert... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #123

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #108

Nice to see that you're getting your quotes from bigoted right-wing sites, I guess? Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #25

sorry, I just pasted it from this site, its an Italian/English site and I meant no insult or harm AntiBank Jun 2016 #31

Your priorities are misplaced. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #32

I was the one to post this whole article in the first place, to point out transphobia in an AntiBank Jun 2016 #33

Depends on who's saying it Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #35

she has a blog, it even has bitch in name so I don't AntiBank Jun 2016 #43

I don't use the term out of principal, but I hear other women call women that somewhat frequently. Crash2Parties Jun 2016 #121

I'm not the one saying that (quite the opposite, in fact) Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #122

Meh. Women do call each other that. Crash2Parties Jun 2016 #124

Are you concerned about the long term effects of the drugs your child will need to ingest HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #34

Hi, you're kind of shockingly ignorant Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #36

You do realize that one person living a long life HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #37

Have some research: Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #39

No, because I read. I learn. I talk to researchers and doctors. Crash2Parties Jun 2016 #126

transgenders don't go around raping women. passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #12

AND, IN THE EYES OF THE LAW.... cynzke Jun 2016 #26

The Democratic Attorney General of NC pointed that out. yardwork Jun 2016 #28

What the fuck type of stalls are you using? And how does this relate to transwomen... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #13

You do realise some restrooms do not have stalls? happyslug Jun 2016 #127

Trans women aren't "strange men" LeftyMom Jun 2016 #24

But what if a cis-male chose to use those facilities for inappropriate reasons oberliner Jun 2016 #48

Because they would be acting inappropriately in the bathroom? Is this rocket science to you... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #61

The man in the Time Magazine story was not acting inappropriately oberliner Jun 2016 #81

If he presents as male and identifies as male, then that would be the recourse... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #86

There is no rule that a person must look a certain way to use a certain restroom. oberliner Jun 2016 #90

The issue is that the nefarious purposes would be, most of the time, illegal... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #94

Many adult males would like to be able to be present in a female locker room oberliner Jun 2016 #97

There's no way to control for that, that argument would also apply... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #102

Fair enough oberliner Jun 2016 #110

Why focus on just cisgender males? n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #111

That's what the Time Magazine article was about oberliner Jun 2016 #113

Is the issue any different if it were a cisgender lesbian or bisexual? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #115

I have a suggestion for recourse passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #101

Many trans women are the victims of rape and assault. Don't their feelings matter? yardwork Jun 2016 #27

Data? link? HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #38

Here you go... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #63

That's because there are many fewer trans people. But they are at much higher risk. yardwork Jun 2016 #73

I'm not suggesting that at all. HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #84

So wait, half of all cisgender women and girls have been victims of sexual assault? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #88

Trans people don't put women and girls at risk. Period. yardwork Jun 2016 #103

In case you haven't heard... Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #119

That made my night! Thanks for letting me know. yardwork Jun 2016 #125

Missing piece of the puzzle Crash2Parties Jun 2016 #9

Good. Glad the bigot stepped down. Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #15

Here's the one issue that seems problematic to me oberliner Jun 2016 #47

That is incorrect. Laws against harassing people still stand. yardwork Jun 2016 #75

There was no harassment oberliner Jun 2016 #83

That sounds like harassment to me. He should have been told to leave. yardwork Jun 2016 #104

The article indicates that staff felt they couldn't ask him to leave oberliner Jun 2016 #107

And the problem? Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #78

The problem is that there is no recourse to remove a cis-male from a female locker room oberliner Jun 2016 #85

situation in NYC where a man reportedly did exactly that, AlbertCat Jun 2016 #99

The facility was under the jurisdiction of the NYC Parks Department oberliner Jun 2016 #100

To apply the ... sendero Jun 2016 #30

$100 says she's a TERFer. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #40

TERF is a harmful hurtful slur HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #53

I once knew... Chan790 Jun 2016 #54

So to hell with finding a solution... HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #55

A solution to what? Its a fucking made up problem brought about by transphobes... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #64

The poster you're replying to is no longer here. cyberswede Jun 2016 #89

Thank you Skinner! passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #105

TERFers are hateful, harmful, hurtful people. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #59

Yet another open minded progressive HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #60

If you disagree on something as fundamental as equal treatment, fuck yes that's bigoted! n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #65

It's more complex than equal treatment HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #69

What concerns? What problems? Has there been a dramatic increase in sexual assaults in bathrooms... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #70

Trans-women are women, too. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #117

No, it isn't! Fun fact, the only people who complain it's a slur... Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #118

The Problem Is Not Transgender People.... cynzke Jun 2016 #41

Thats actually correct philosslayer Jun 2016 #44

Agreed. The problem is that predators could take advantage of the law milestogo Jun 2016 #45

I think this is the article you mean oberliner Jun 2016 #46

That person is not identifying as transgender. yardwork Jun 2016 #77

That is exactly the point oberliner Jun 2016 #82

Uhm, its right there in the rules, they can't ask for proof, they can ask if they are transgender. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #87

The person can say they are transgender oberliner Jun 2016 #91

In that case, there is no issue. If they aren't acting inappropriately, then no problems. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #92

In the Time Mag story, the girls felt uncomfortable changing in a locker room with an adult male oberliner Jun 2016 #95

People can't control other people's feelings, there are all sorts of situations where people... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #96

OK oberliner Jun 2016 #98

You have no proof he was a cis male passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #109

That's true oberliner Jun 2016 #112

He wore male swim trunks and had a beard passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #114

Logic, It Seems To Me Would OVERRULE an Accusation cynzke Jun 2016 #49

Logic takes a back seat if it's the law.... HillareeeHillaraah Jun 2016 #58

That's nonsense. The law does not tie anybody's hands. yardwork Jun 2016 #76

Not really bearded passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #106

Hopefully, the ACLU will do a better job at screening out ignorant bigots Zorra Jun 2016 #50

It is possible to develop bathrooms where no one is made uncomfortable that does no discriminate. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #51

Yes. Chan790 Jun 2016 #56

How about what was done largely before? Or perhaps just not discriminate... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #67

No there aren't, but that doesn't mean that, going forward, we can't design better bathrooms. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #71

I'm not opposed to that idea, its just that I find it odd that, because many localities... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #72

A lot of people find change difficult. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #74

I think its more than that, a lot of people are repulsed by transgender people... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #79

I don't have a problem with people who feel repulsed. My problem is their attempts to force everyone Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #80

Maybe she can join the Gundamentalist Crusade for MOAR GUNS at Target. stone space Jun 2016 #52

She made the right decision. truthisfreedom Jun 2016 #57

reminds me of kindergarden cop Elmergantry Jun 2016 #62

Probably because, like anything in biology, its complicated, fuzzy, contradictory and wrong? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #68

And she goes on FOX atreides1 Jun 2016 #66

Maybe she thought the ACLU was an extension of the NAACP? TipTok Jun 2016 #93

I'm sure that when water fountains were first desegregated, Nye Bevan Jun 2016 #116

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #128