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In reply to the discussion: Donald Trump is barred from Colorado's 2024 ballot, the state Supreme Court rules [View all]Novara
(6,115 posts)116. No. A conviction isn't needed
Read the important part: "engaged in insurrection or rebellion."
That's exactly what he did.
https://deanobeidallah.substack.com/p/barring-trump-from-ballot-is-not
snip:
First, the court addressed if Jan 6 was an insurrection as contemplated by Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. In the earlier lower court trial in this case--where Trumps lawyers participated, called witnesses, introduced evidence etc.--the judge looked at the historical meaning of insurrection at the time the 14th Amendment was drafted. Judge Sarah Wallace then concluded that an insurrection as used in Section Three is (1) a public use of force or threat of force (2) by a group of people (3) to hinder or prevent execution of the Constitution of the United States. The Supreme Court affirmed that ruling noting there was ample evidence to support that conclusion that the goal of the Jan 6 insurrection was to prevent Congress from certifying President Bidens victory on that date.
Next, the question was whether Trump engaged in that insurrection within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. The Colorado Supreme Court noted that the US Attorney General at the time of the 14th Amendment was drafted, Henry Stanbery, explained that a person could have engaged in an insurrection even if the person had not levied war or take arms. Rather, Stanbery opined that when individuals acting in their official capacities act in the furtherance of the common unlawful purpose or do any overt act for the purpose of promoting the rebellion, they have engaged in insurrection or rebellion for Section Three disqualification purposes.
The court then detailed Trumps overt acts that he took for several months to build support for the Jan 6 insurrection, beginning with Trump refusing to accept the election results, spewing lies about the election being stolen to calling his supporters to Washington DC for a wild time on Jan 6. The court also laid out how on Jan 6, Trump incited the crowd to head to the Capitol to stop the steal, knowing they were angry and many were armed. And the court gave great weight to the fact that during the Jan 6 insurrection, Trump took no action to put an end to the violence. To the contrary, as mentioned above, when told that the mob was chanting, Hang Mike Pence, President Trump responded that perhaps the Vice President deserved to be hanged.
In sum, the court concluded: Trump fully intended toand didaid or further the insurrectionists common unlawful purpose of preventing the peaceful transfer of power in this country. He exhorted them to fight to prevent the certification of the 2020 presidential election. He personally took action to try to stop the certification. And for many hours, he and his supporters succeeded in halting that process. For these reasons, we conclude that the record fully supports the district courts finding that President Trump engaged in insurrection within the meaning of Section Three.
Finally, came the legal question of whether Section 3 applies to a President given that this constitutional provision expressly notes its applicability to members of Congress and members of any State legislature but not the office of President. Section 3 does, however, state it also applies to any officer of the United States.
The trial judge had concluded that Section 3 didnt apply to a President. However, the Colorado Supreme Court rejected that interpretation instead finding that the clear purpose of Section Three was to ensure that disloyal officers could never again play a role in governing the country. The court added, The drafters of Section Three were motivated by a sense of betrayal; that is, by the existence of a broken oath, not by the type of officer who broke it.
The court powerfully and rightly concluded: A construction of Section Three that would nevertheless allow a former President who broke his oath, not only to participate in the government again but to run for and hold the highest office in the land, is flatly unfaithful to the Sections purpose.
It flies in the face of common sense that the framers of the 14th Amendment would declare that if you engage in an insurrection, you are banned from officethat is, unless you are the President and in that case, insurrection all you want!
However, the key takeaway from this ruling is not banning Trump from the ballot. Rather, its that this state Supreme Court ruled Trump is disqualified from holding the office of President under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. As a result of being ineligible to hold office, he is banned from the ballot. That also means if Trump were written in on the ballot by his supporters, he still would not be certified as the winner of the states election because he is ineligible to serve.
Next, the question was whether Trump engaged in that insurrection within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. The Colorado Supreme Court noted that the US Attorney General at the time of the 14th Amendment was drafted, Henry Stanbery, explained that a person could have engaged in an insurrection even if the person had not levied war or take arms. Rather, Stanbery opined that when individuals acting in their official capacities act in the furtherance of the common unlawful purpose or do any overt act for the purpose of promoting the rebellion, they have engaged in insurrection or rebellion for Section Three disqualification purposes.
The court then detailed Trumps overt acts that he took for several months to build support for the Jan 6 insurrection, beginning with Trump refusing to accept the election results, spewing lies about the election being stolen to calling his supporters to Washington DC for a wild time on Jan 6. The court also laid out how on Jan 6, Trump incited the crowd to head to the Capitol to stop the steal, knowing they were angry and many were armed. And the court gave great weight to the fact that during the Jan 6 insurrection, Trump took no action to put an end to the violence. To the contrary, as mentioned above, when told that the mob was chanting, Hang Mike Pence, President Trump responded that perhaps the Vice President deserved to be hanged.
In sum, the court concluded: Trump fully intended toand didaid or further the insurrectionists common unlawful purpose of preventing the peaceful transfer of power in this country. He exhorted them to fight to prevent the certification of the 2020 presidential election. He personally took action to try to stop the certification. And for many hours, he and his supporters succeeded in halting that process. For these reasons, we conclude that the record fully supports the district courts finding that President Trump engaged in insurrection within the meaning of Section Three.
Finally, came the legal question of whether Section 3 applies to a President given that this constitutional provision expressly notes its applicability to members of Congress and members of any State legislature but not the office of President. Section 3 does, however, state it also applies to any officer of the United States.
The trial judge had concluded that Section 3 didnt apply to a President. However, the Colorado Supreme Court rejected that interpretation instead finding that the clear purpose of Section Three was to ensure that disloyal officers could never again play a role in governing the country. The court added, The drafters of Section Three were motivated by a sense of betrayal; that is, by the existence of a broken oath, not by the type of officer who broke it.
The court powerfully and rightly concluded: A construction of Section Three that would nevertheless allow a former President who broke his oath, not only to participate in the government again but to run for and hold the highest office in the land, is flatly unfaithful to the Sections purpose.
It flies in the face of common sense that the framers of the 14th Amendment would declare that if you engage in an insurrection, you are banned from officethat is, unless you are the President and in that case, insurrection all you want!
However, the key takeaway from this ruling is not banning Trump from the ballot. Rather, its that this state Supreme Court ruled Trump is disqualified from holding the office of President under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. As a result of being ineligible to hold office, he is banned from the ballot. That also means if Trump were written in on the ballot by his supporters, he still would not be certified as the winner of the states election because he is ineligible to serve.
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Donald Trump is barred from Colorado's 2024 ballot, the state Supreme Court rules [View all]
LetMyPeopleVote
Dec 2023
OP
The Colorado Supreme Court holds that Trump is disqualified from holding the presidency.
LetMyPeopleVote
Dec 2023
#2
A remarkably detailed and well reasoned decision. A tad tedious but well reasoned.
TomSlick
Dec 2023
#38
But what happens if other states join in? They are going to block all of them?
Maraya1969
Dec 2023
#93
Yeah, but the 14th doesn't require conviction; it just says "engaged in insurrection or rebellion"
William Seger
Dec 2023
#92
In George Washington's day, Trump would already have been taken out and executed.
Lonestarblue
Dec 2023
#114
BREAKING: by 4-3 vote, Colorado Supreme Court bars Trump from primary ballot
LetMyPeopleVote
Dec 2023
#6
After all the blowback for recent decisions, the Federalist Society Six must have stomach ulcers by now.
sop
Dec 2023
#111
Colorado Supreme Court rules Trump disqualified from holding presidency
LetMyPeopleVote
Dec 2023
#10
So proud of my state. NOW, plenty of others, BE SO BOLD as to follow suit!!!!
RobertDevereaux
Dec 2023
#11
Au contraire! The federalistsocieters-funded-by-the-kochs will agree with CO.
Justice matters.
Dec 2023
#101
His name won't appear on the ballot, but it can still be written in. {edited}
mahatmakanejeeves
Dec 2023
#25
Write-in votes for him won't be counted - stated explicitly in the opinion
Prairie Gates
Dec 2023
#70
Cue the whine fest on Faux state television tonight. I'd never know cuz I never watch the motherfuckers.
Comfortably_Numb
Dec 2023
#30
It's not necessary to be on the ballot for a state's primary to be on that state's general election ballot.
24601
Dec 2023
#121
Colorado Supreme Court kicks Trump off the state's 2024 ballot for violating the U.S. Constitution
LetMyPeopleVote
Dec 2023
#34
my bet is that SCOTUS will allow him on the ballot with a concurring majority of all kinds of opinions
prodigitalson
Dec 2023
#43
Without requiring a conviction by a jury, a judge's opinion can be based on anything.
Fiendish Thingy
Dec 2023
#74
Reality, due process and precedent say that a conviction *is* required.
Fiendish Thingy
Dec 2023
#84
So, your'e okay with a few witnesses testifying against you, then you're sentenced to prison?
SlimJimmy
Dec 2023
#133
SCOTUS?? Wait a minuite- What about hair on fire whirling maggots shrieking States Rights States Rights States Rights
NBachers
Dec 2023
#58