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(3,557 posts)
86. A lot of it has to do with family, culture, and the section of society some of these guys come from
Thu Jul 18, 2013, 07:20 AM
Jul 2013

I was born in 1980 and I grew up in a family that leaned right. I had no relation with anyone who actually served in a post WWII war in an Infantry function. My one grandfather was a WWII Infantryman, my other grandfather was a typist/clerk assigned to a unit in Japan during the Korean war, and my father narrowly missed being drafted to Vietnam based on his birth date.

I grew up watching and idolizing G.I. Joe (the real American hero) and I saw conflicts such as Panama, Desert Storm, Bosnia/Kosovo as justified use of our military and as proof that our military was there to be used by our leaders as a force to spread freedom, opportunity, and democracy to the world. Our military might was used to stop genocide and to free the oppressed. Hell, I idolized the Green Berets whose motto is "De oppresso libre" or liberator of the oppressed.

I joined the Army in 1997, received an Army ROTC scholarship in 1998, and graduated college in 2002 and voluntarily sought an assignment as an Infantry Officer in the Army. Afghanistan, in my mind and at the time, was completely justified. I never dreamed that we would enter a war like we did in Iraq. I was finishing up my training at Fort Benning, GA in March 2003 when the war in Iraq started. Even at the time I thought the war was stupid and I had no idea why we went there. I never bought the arguments from bush (even though I supported him and even voted for him in 2000). I had no idea that I'd find myself in Iraq in February 2004 serving as an Infantry Platoon Leader.

Even though I never believed in the war and never bought the rhetoric, I was going to do my best to "do the right thing" and to treat everyone with respect of dignity. I was there to help make the country a better place. I wanted to work with the Iraqi people and I truly wanted them to live in a better country.

I was brainwashed by my upbringing before the Army even got a hold of me. The only brainwashing the Army did to me was to make it easy for me kill someone.

If you are interested in learning about this, read the book On Killing written by Dave Grossman. To give a four sentence summary, data gathered from WWII and wars prior indicate that only %15-20 of people who have actually seen an enemy in combat could bring themselves to kill that person. Upon realizing that statistic, the Army instituted a variety of techniques to train people to be more willing to kill. By Vietnam, data indicated that 95% of Soldiers who saw and enemy were able to and willing to kill them. As a result of this, we see many more vets suffering mental health issues after war now than we have in previous wars.

Isn't that conduct unbecoming? muntrv Jul 2013 #1
Pretty much and he was demoted for it as he should have been for such a cstanleytech Jul 2013 #7
While the conduct is unbecoming, under the UCMJ, the law prohibiting Conduct Unbecoming applies to 24601 Jul 2013 #107
Abuse of corpse is revenge? rdharma Jul 2013 #2
Who wouldn't want to do that? Uh, me, for one. nt valerief Jul 2013 #3
So killing them wasn't enough? JeffHead Jul 2013 #4
They were dead Jeff so I kind of doubt they felt any humilation at that point. cstanleytech Jul 2013 #8
All I'm saying is.. It just makes us look bad. JeffHead Jul 2013 #41
Of course it makes us look bad. cstanleytech Jul 2013 #53
No, not "look bad" -- it makes us bad. The Stranger Jul 2013 #92
Embarrassing? Yeah. westerebus Jul 2013 #48
Humiliated Embarassing... What's the difference? JeffHead Jul 2013 #54
It embarrassing when these events happen. westerebus Jul 2013 #69
Using "we've been doing this this time immemorial" is a pretty weak and ineffectual... LanternWaste Jul 2013 #96
I didn't offer a rationalization. westerebus Jul 2013 #109
He humiliated the United States of America. The Stranger Jul 2013 #91
+ 1000 red dog 1 Jul 2013 #12
This is nothing new philosslayer Jul 2013 #23
And the Japanese christx30 Jul 2013 #43
It wasn't right then and it's not right now JeffHead Jul 2013 #44
Never heard carla Jul 2013 #87
About WW2, Rick Atkinson disagrees with you. Lionel Mandrake Jul 2013 #103
Kind of makes you wonder what the "enemy" would do to the dead if facts were reversed warrant46 Jul 2013 #106
Killing our families? We were occupying their country. Hoyt Jul 2013 #5
Hate to break it to you but the taliban are atleast as bad as the tea party fanatics cstanleytech Jul 2013 #14
So desecrating their corpse is OK? Hoyt Jul 2013 #16
Hoyt you have a problem. cstanleytech Jul 2013 #20
I agree Taliban are Aholes, but so is someone under our flag who acts no better. Hoyt Jul 2013 #27
He have the right to do it, even if we don't like it. Sand Wind Jul 2013 #6
"Let's talk about more comprehensive situation"? red dog 1 Jul 2013 #22
I mean that : we , Muslims, and Christians, we should have better understanding, Sand Wind Jul 2013 #25
because we will all be facing the "Chineese emperialism" (sic). In the long run? red dog 1 Jul 2013 #32
Really, you do not figured what will happen when China will decide that enough is enough ? Sand Wind Jul 2013 #35
I am getting a headache from trying to decypher your babble. red dog 1 Jul 2013 #38
Well the fact is that real Muslim don't give a fuck about your pissing soldier ! Sand Wind Jul 2013 #39
"We don't give a fuck about him"? red dog 1 Jul 2013 #47
"Are you even a Democrat" Sand Wind Jul 2013 #50
Asking if you are a Democrat is "insulting you"? red dog 1 Jul 2013 #52
It's only because you are a racist that you dare to put my loyalty in question... Sand Wind Jul 2013 #55
Exactly. I was wondering the same. Who is this "we"? Thanks. n/t Judi Lynn Jul 2013 #100
You're welcome Judi Lynn red dog 1 Jul 2013 #102
"Well the fact is that real Muslims don't give a fuck about your pissing soldier"? red dog 1 Jul 2013 #49
Yes I am. And you are not.nt Sand Wind Jul 2013 #51
"Yes I am. And you are not, nt"? red dog 1 Jul 2013 #58
So now you are playing stupid game about my religion, and you are not a racist ? Sand Wind Jul 2013 #59
"Democratic Underground is an on-line community for U.S. Democrats. red dog 1 Jul 2013 #62
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #63
I suppose you are the one who make a fiesta because Zimmerman win ? Sand Wind Jul 2013 #64
You are able to correctly spell "doucebag"; but not "Chinese Imperialism"? red dog 1 Jul 2013 #67
You should click on the poster's profile and that will explain. nt MADem Jul 2013 #65
Thank's ! Sand Wind Jul 2013 #66
For what it's worth, crim son Jul 2013 #68
I don't think John2 Jul 2013 #75
Anytime. nt MADem Jul 2013 #74
Thanks MADem, I just clicked on Sand Wind's profile, and it explains a lot. red dog 1 Jul 2013 #70
No clue as to your latter question. MADem Jul 2013 #73
No, you're not mistaken, MADem. red dog 1 Jul 2013 #77
I have no idea, either. MADem Jul 2013 #78
You don't have free trade? n/t jtuck004 Jul 2013 #56
Not even in approximation ...nt Sand Wind Jul 2013 #57
What's stopping it? We are a net importer, afaik, so what do you have jtuck004 Jul 2013 #60
The problem is not only you, but also our corrupt government, Sand Wind Jul 2013 #61
What would be the advantage to importing from there? Why not just get it from jtuck004 Jul 2013 #76
You are wrong, it is prohibited by the Geneva Convention. jtuck004 Jul 2013 #24
Yes you are right, but don't ask us to care about Geneve. Sand Wind Jul 2013 #26
I bet the family of the Idaho soldier being held as prisoner by the Taliban wishes someone did. jtuck004 Jul 2013 #28
I hope this prisoner is being well, and really I hate the Taliban for all the misery Sand Wind Jul 2013 #29
Respect for others often is. But some think it makes life better, unlike the deaths of jtuck004 Jul 2013 #30
Yes, drones don't help. Nt Sand Wind Jul 2013 #33
I agree. Urinating on corpses is bad enough, but to proclaim to the world that red dog 1 Jul 2013 #36
Yes that's right , poor him, and let's talk about more important issues... Sand Wind Jul 2013 #37
"poor him, and let's talk about more important issues"? red dog 1 Jul 2013 #42
He is a war prisoner, stuff happen. Sand Wind Jul 2013 #46
The "more comprehensive situation" carla Jul 2013 #88
No, apparently he doesn't have the "right" to do it. The Stranger Jul 2013 #93
I don't blame him. Our politicians did this. ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #9
they signed up SHRED Jul 2013 #13
That is true, but the situation still fucks with people's heads. nt ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #15
I know this personally SHRED Jul 2013 #18
"I don't blame him. Our politicians did this." Pure sophistry. cstanleytech Jul 2013 #17
What if he is suffering from PTSD? ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #19
PTSD isnt a get out of jail card. nt cstanleytech Jul 2013 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2013 #45
No excuse -- I blame him. No one forced to become a subhuman piece of shit. The Stranger Jul 2013 #94
I think wars twist people's minds. nt ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #99
Culturally, that is disgusting and unnecessary. It cost even more good-will. Socal31 Jul 2013 #10
And is shooting a 15 year old female in the head is Culturally disgusting and unnecessary William769 Jul 2013 #31
"Who wouldn't want that if you lost your brother or mother? " SHRED Jul 2013 #11
Sick. another_liberal Jul 2013 #34
K&R...Thanks for posting this big_dog red dog 1 Jul 2013 #40
The biggest thing he did. Notafraidtoo Jul 2013 #71
R. Kelly joined the Marines? alp227 Jul 2013 #72
when it comes to brainwashing, you have to hand it to the US Military. olddad56 Jul 2013 #79
A lot of it has to do with family, culture, and the section of society some of these guys come from Victor_c3 Jul 2013 #86
Hired killers have a skewed moral compass? mwrguy Jul 2013 #80
One of them lost their mother to the Taliban? rpannier Jul 2013 #81
They ain't called ''jarheads'' for nothin'. :-/ n/t DeSwiss Jul 2013 #82
I will not judge him BigD_95 Jul 2013 #83
Then I will. The Stranger Jul 2013 #95
So will I. He's a dirtbag. nt historylovr Jul 2013 #101
I know I'm going to be hated for this.... Victor_c3 Jul 2013 #84
Acts such as these are an individual choice, not a predetermination. LanternWaste Jul 2013 #98
Much worse things were done to corpses by both sides in the Pacific in WWII independentpiney Jul 2013 #85
Ooh, I bet those dead guys were really ticked off when they realized they had been urinated on. tanyev Jul 2013 #89
Yep, that's who he is, the guy that pees on the dead. nt bemildred Jul 2013 #90
It's easy for us, who've never been to war, to judge him, and say with certainty.. KinMd Jul 2013 #97
If this were the standard, then we would never have laws of any kind. The Stranger Jul 2013 #105
Pragmatically, it was a petty act that did nothing but inflame tensions WatermelonRat Jul 2013 #104
This guy is a real piece of work dgilmour32863 Jul 2013 #108
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