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In reply to the discussion: Former Pink Floyd frontman sparks fury by comparing Israelis to Nazis [View all]obama2terms
(563 posts)Was originally a Christian idea. And that was long before the Zionist movement even existed. George Bush who was a Christian restorationist ( distantly related to the Bush family) believed that Jews should return to the "holy land" where most of them would be converted to Christianity. In fact the largest pro-Israel organization in the U.S. isn't even a Jewish group, it's a Christian one called Christians United for Israel. Many Jews I know, including myself don't like this group because of their unconditional support for Israel. They think Israel can do no wrong, which is absolutely outrageous. This group is based more on Christian guilt about the holocaust, than it is about making Israel a better place. Zionism wasn't even mentioned in the U.S. until Louis Brandeis (first Jewish SCOTUS Justice) was raising money to send to Jews in war torn Europe during WWI. It had nothing to do with even establishing a Jewish state.
Evangelical groups these days have more undying support for Israel than Jews do. Evangelical groups think Israel can do no wrong because they believe Israel was given to Jews by god. In fact 55 percent of U.S. Christians and 64% of Protestant Christians believe this. While only 40% of American Jews believe this, and when it comes down to secular Jews only 16% believe that.
Considering Christians have the largest pro-Israel lobbying group in the U.S. and that's just one I named. Wouldn't they be the ones that truly have more power and control? They surely make up more than a measley 2% of the population. This whole idea that Jewish lobbying is exclusively a Jewish thing is a common myth. With Jews making up less than 2 percent of the population when you exclude children there has to be outside influences, hence all of the Christian groups.
Personally I'm not a fan of BB Netanyahu or Shimon Peres. Frankly I am sick of all of the violence between Israel and Palestine, because it's not average citizens of either place doing this, it's their governments and individual radical groups. I'm a strong supporter of a 2 state solution, and I have been for a long time. I don't see it happening anytime soon because both places have to want peace, they can't rely on other countries to make it happen.
Now to Roger Waters, "Waters is just reacting to what he sees now. Jewish people in general aren't going to like it because it is them and their government he is calling out." What do you mean by that? I can't speak for other Jews but Israel's gov't is not "my gov't" the U.S. gov't is my gov't. I've never been to Israel and have no desire to go because of their policies I don't agree with, including how women are treated there. I've lived in the U.S. my whole life so I don't consider Israel's gov't my gov't, because I don't live there nor do I EVER want to go there. And Roger Waters is calling my people out? What exactly have I done to warrant this? I don't belong to any political lobbying groups, I live a pretty average life. And surprise surprise! I'm not involved in the music industry or any big industry in the U.S. for that matter.
What you said about this "he believes himself and others who support his beliefs may be financially punished in their industry if they speak their minds on that issue." He's worth 230 million dollars so it doesn't sound like anyone has financially punished him for his views. He sounds like a paranoid anti-semite who thinks Jews control every little move he makes. About Jon Stewart and Ben Stiller. If Jon Stewart ever does a segment on Water's comments he probably will make fun of Roger Water's paranoid views that Jews are out to get him for his views on Israel. I don't know what Ben Stiller would do because I've never watched his stand up, I think he's a better actor than he is a stand up comedian.
I would be more inclined to listen to his views on Israel if he didn't bring up age old anti semitic stereotypes in the process. I think the inflatable pig was more bad taste than anti-semitism. And in some ways inaccurate. He seems to equate being Jewish as automatically making you a Zionist which is not the case. I don't think he should have put a star of david on that pig, he should have put Israel's flag. By doing what he did he's singling out Jewish people as a whole not Israel like he should have done (which does not represent the views or beliefs of all Jews or even its citizens).
He had a good chance to make a huge political statement, but his own ignorance of Jews and our beliefs ruined the whole thing.