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Tommy_Carcetti

(44,605 posts)

70. If it's all about what happened in Kiev, then why can't you tell me what you think happened in Kiev?

Mon Jun 30, 2014, 04:33 PM

Jun 2014

You keep on insinuating that what happened in February 2014 was some sort of a coup, and yet you haven't provided me with facts to back such an assertion up.

There was a regime change. By all appearances, it seems to fit under what is popularly known as a revolution. There were massive protests against the president, these protests did not subside even after a violent crackdown, and ultimately the president choose to leave the country under his own manpower rather than continue to face the ire of these protests. Which you should know isn't the same thing as a coup. Now if you want to go ahead and demonize all revolutions as being undemocratic and spawning illegitimate regimes, go ahead, but then we have to look at our roots as Americans in that case.

You insist on making the issue about Right Sector and Svoboda. Those are two small parties with little public support in Ukraine. Just look at the last presidential election there if you don't believe me. One has no representation whatsoever in the government, and the other holds three fairly insignificant positions in the Cabinet. Beyond that, the fact that these ultranationalist parties exist in Ukraine--what of it? It's a paper tiger and a red herring, and if you do in fact believe that the best choice for Ukraine is to move away from Russia and towards Europe, you're best avoiding such a false narrative propagated by the Russian media and supporters of armed pro-Russian separatists.

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Ukraine's Poroshenko signs EU accord [View all] fireflysky46 Jun 2014 OP

Ronald McDonald is cheering. nt elias49 Jun 2014 #1

It remains to be seen. The EU did not offer much and they severed ties with their newthinking Jun 2014 #2

Sole beneficiary is the EU dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #10

I had not seen that they severed trading ties with Russia. That seems like an odd thing to do. pampango Jun 2014 #11

Perhaps Russia will be the one to sever ties. amandabeech Jun 2014 #22

If Russia is the one severing ties that would not be Ukraine's fault. pampango Jun 2014 #25

I agree. Russia is responsible for its own actions. amandabeech Jun 2014 #32

I think most folks on DU understand that "Free Trade" agreements are "favorable to certain party" newthinking Jun 2014 #26

That is no reason for their trade with Russia to be affected. Mexico's FTA with the US pampango Jun 2014 #29

Russia also withstood the poor quality of their industrial output dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #37

The EU did not sever ties with russia. Here are the working agreements with all countries Sunlei Jun 2014 #56

The piper has to be paid . . . another_liberal Jun 2014 #3

Sadly yes... Xolodno Jun 2014 #21

Or some Right Sector hot head may put a bullet in Poro . . . another_liberal Jun 2014 #23

Don't think it will come to that.... Xolodno Jun 2014 #24

But Kiev hasn't yet got Donetsk, Slavyansk or Lugansk back . . . another_liberal Jun 2014 #27

And will probably be a thorn in the side... Xolodno Jun 2014 #38

You do know that Svoboda and Right Sector polled a total of 2% in the recent elections, right? Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #36

Their power is not in the numbers of voters they can turn out . . . another_liberal Jun 2014 #39

They have no political clout. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #69

Amazing how they got all those executive positions in the government newthinking Jun 2014 #44

Right Sector has no positions. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #48

Come on TC, I have posted the list of Neo-Nazis in the executive in several replys -again newthinking Jun 2014 #49

And I've already rebutted most of your claims to the same cut and paste post. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #52

Principal trading partner is Russia. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #4

Russia has no future? Demeter Jun 2014 #6

You got it. The Candy Man ballyhoo Jun 2014 #8

The EU is screwed up because of the euro. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #12

A primitive supply region. It has no future.............. dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #15

Worry about the ruble. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #19

Wishful thinking? Or listening to too many pundits? newthinking Jun 2014 #28

Russia's very well run fiscally. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #41

The Eurozone may not last but, unless the far right has its way, the EU will not die. pampango Jun 2014 #13

Talk to Greece Demeter Jun 2014 #14

Talk to the far right. AFAIK, they are the only ones trying to break up the EU. pampango Jun 2014 #18

Full list of such agreements here dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #16

I disagree. Xolodno Jun 2014 #30

That's a reasonable argument. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #40

I disagree...and you kind of made my point for me. Xolodno Jun 2014 #50

We'll see. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #51

Meanwhile Russia shits the bed diplomatically, as per usual Bosonic Jun 2014 #5

"Coup!" "Neo-Nazi!" Rinse! Repeat!....oh so typical. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #17

I believe the children are our future.... Billy Budd Jun 2014 #7

Poroshenko: Rada won't ratify Association Agreement with EU in current session dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #9

We don't know how this will play out. But no mistake, this is what the majority of Ukrainians wanted Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #20

Reality is Maidan was a minority newthinking Jun 2014 #31

Once again, you're wrong. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #34

Where you lose perspective is when you lump people's views there into only two possible choices newthinking Jun 2014 #42

You ignore the state of Ukrainian opinion in 2014. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #53

Also some are using a false representation of Ukraine : fireflysky46 Jun 2014 #46

What does this represent? newthinking Jun 2014 #65

Again, given the cut and paste posting, my restated response. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #67

Yes dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #35

The momentum was also built by a paid core. Several Oligarchs were paying people to live on newthinking Jun 2014 #43

It's really, really hard to claim that hundreds of thousands were paid off. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #57

No, but the core who kept the momentum going were paid newthinking Jun 2014 #58

Exactly who was the "core" that kept the momentum going? Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #59

Well, except that public opinion polls do show the majority supported their positions. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #54

I have said again and again that because they agreed with some positions newthinking Jun 2014 #60

But my point was that the majority of Ukrainians wanted to move towards Europe... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #61

You make such definitive statements about all ukrainains, yet newthinking Jun 2014 #62

I have plenty of family in the country. I hear their input all the time. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #63

Your family obviously tends toward the west, you are evidence newthinking Jun 2014 #64

My family does come from the west of the country. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #66

I do agree that much of the country was interested in the EU newthinking Jun 2014 #68

If it's all about what happened in Kiev, then why can't you tell me what you think happened in Kiev? Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #70

I don't have time to go back and point by point the list, but it is accurate newthinking Jun 2014 #71

If you are good at finding things, then you can presumably tell me how there was a coup. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #72

yes its really a �civilizational choice�. nt fireflysky46 Jun 2014 #45

Good news here's all the EU and Ukraine policies from 1998- present Sunlei Jun 2014 #33

! DeSwiss Jun 2014 #47

lol love that cartoon! Ukraine may someday be a full EU member, if they get rid of the cooties! Sunlei Jun 2014 #55