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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
20. I saw it when it first came out....
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 04:18 PM
Sep 2014

My favorite scene is when an Army Officer pulled in the Air Force Officer who was reviewing the M2 Bradley fighting Vehicle and told him to be careful "Given a choice between us, people who threaten a weapons program, and a Soviet Spy, they go after US every time".

The M2 Bradley has been a very successful program since it was introduced in the 1980s (And the Air Force Officers efforts made it a much better vehicle then it had been before his efforts) but its still suffers from some major shortcomings, mostly do to its Aluminum Armor.

Aluminium "burns" (Technically it is called Rapid Oxidation) at a much lower temperature then Steel (but much higher then magnesium). Thus if you make a vehicle from Aluminium it will "burn" if hit by a HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank Round). You have to design around that problem for Aluminum is four times stronger then steel of the same mass (But Alumunium takes up three times the volume of Steel, thus the same MASS of Steel and Aluminium means looking at an Aluminum block three times the size of the Steel Block of the same MASS).

Aluminum "Melts" at 1220.58 Fahrenheit, which is low for metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Oxidation_state_.2B3

Iron "Melts" at 2800 Degree Fahrenheit, over twice the temperture of Aluminum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron

Magnesium melts at ​1202 Fahrenheit, through some alloy burn as low as 660 Fahrenheit:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-temperature-metals-d_860.html

Even today there is some question as to the ability of the Bradley to take a HEAT round. The last time I checked the changes made during the fight to get it into production gave the crew more time to vacant if they have to but that is about all.

The movie did have an error in it, it states that Israel was being given an improved version of the M2 Bradley. In the real world Israel used and is still using the older, all aluminium M113 Vietnam Era Armored Personal Carrier. Israel is looking for a replacement do to the affects of HEAT rounds on the Aluminum armor of the M113, but the M2 Bradley is NOT among the options Israel is looking at.

Israeli has instead opted for a conversion of old T-54 tanks to Infantry Carriers and building new infantry vehicles based on its Merkava Tank. The T-54 uses steel armor, the Merkava uses composite and reactive armor.

For more on the T-54 conversion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDF_Achzarit

For more on the Merkava Infantry Fighting Vehicle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namer

Just a Comment that the M2 Bradley was only sold to Saudi Arabia, unlike the M113 which was and still use used world wide. The users of the M113 know its weaknesses and try to avoid placing it anyplace where a HEAT round can be used against it (The most common way is to use Steel APCs or Tanks to lead M113s into combat, thus the Steel APC gets any HEAT rounds fired).

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

OMG. What the f-ck is up in this Country? Something BAD is brewing... blkmusclmachine Sep 2014 #1
Money for this but not education. F@ck militarization grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #2
Obama billhicks76 Sep 2014 #24
That shiny new paint makes it look so much less deadly. obxhead Sep 2014 #3
The US military won't use MRAPs on military bases. Half-Century Man Sep 2014 #4
Well once the school kids started planting landmines all over what did you expect. Exultant Democracy Sep 2014 #5
+100 christx30 Sep 2014 #12
I'll say it again, we didn't give all the war junk to the cops after WWII. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #6
Yup... we sold it to civilians who opened whistler162 Sep 2014 #8
There was a "swords into plowshares" glee at going to a peacetime standing.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #14
Yes, we did. happyslug Sep 2014 #15
50's era cops weren't dressing up as soldiers and driving tanks.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #17
I agreed, but my point was there was such a program... happyslug Sep 2014 #18
There's a movie you have to check out if you haven't seen it yet called "The Pentagon Wars". Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #19
I saw it when it first came out.... happyslug Sep 2014 #20
The moral of the movie for me was promotions are linked to contracts... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #25
Yes, but wait! It's to save children!!! NBachers Sep 2014 #7
MDVs! RandiFan1290 Sep 2014 #9
Way too many guns, we need more butter. Snarkoleptic Sep 2014 #10
Precisely Sherman A1 Sep 2014 #11
Unreal... blackspade Sep 2014 #13
won't somebody think of the children? frylock Sep 2014 #16
So is that the workaround to impunity on military grade vehicles for law enforcement work? Earth_First Sep 2014 #21
This screams "Find a quick big-ticket purchase..." Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #22
The "after" images are photoshopped bananas Sep 2014 #23
Haven't studied this enough to delete_bush Sep 2014 #27
Aren't these the same geniuses procon Sep 2014 #26
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Tanks at the school gates...»Reply #20