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Denzil_DC

(7,241 posts)
56. Clickbait from Quincy, huh? Disappointing.
Sat Feb 10, 2018, 11:13 AM
Feb 2018

Anybody who makes claims like The Beatles "were the worst musicians in the world" can't ever have tried to actually play the parts they came up with, and does a grave disservice not just to their abilities, but to how influential what they did was to contemporary and later musicians (vastly more influential than Jones, I'll wager, but I'll try to steer away from getting caught up in pointless backbiting).

The Beatles were never slow to acknowledge their own influences - unlike some other bands, they were very respectful of black musicianship, having been steeped in it by exposure to early records imported via Liverpool docks, and also took a strong stand against racial segregation among audiences during their American tours - from classical music, jazz, showtunes or other bands and artists that were developing as the same time as them.

All of the components - the guitar parts, basslines, drum parts, vocal harmonies, and also the production techniques - were always in service of the song, not technical virtuosity or gimmickry for the sake of it, not least because they were generally working within industry- and self-imposed limits on song length (it didn't hurt that they generally started out with strong song ideas to dress up in various ways).

However, there was abundant technical virtuosity, nevertheless.

Harrison started out playing short rockabilly-like solos in the early years, drawing on influences like Chet Atkins. Later, he progressed to lyrical solos like those on "Something" and "Let It Be", which are works of art in themselves, and continued to expand on this when he went solo.

Contrary to what was written by somebody above, it wasn't that Harrison couldn't have played a decent solo on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" (he was an excellent slide guitar player, with a unique tone he developed by detuning harmony strings), Clapton was a close pal whose chops he loved and respected, and the two influenced and sparked off each other. Harrison was typically unegotistical enough to hand Clapton the chance to shine spectacularly (I know a lot of people love Prince's live version of the solo, but to me it's extended cliched technical noodling to no great purpose, whereas the original solo was soaked in emotion and very concise).

Ravi Shankar certainly didn't seem to have any complaints about Harrison's musical abilities when he began his education in Indian music and sitar. Other bands (like the Stones) used the sitar as more or less an exotic sound effect, just playing standard Western musical lines, whereas Harrison took the trouble to learn about the hinterland of the instrument (and went on to groundbreakingly meld Eastern and Western musical ideas and theory in songs like "Within You, Without You").

Neither McCartney nor Lennon were slouches either (I'll focus on their guitar playing, but they also developed into competent self-taught keyboard players, and McCartney was a good enough all-rounder to play most of the instruments, including drums, on the album Band On The Run).

Lennon was, unusually for him, quite humble about his guitar abilities, but as a rhythm/lead player, he was up there with Pete Townshend (listen to the brief, searing solos on "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band", for just a few examples). He also developed, after tuition by Donovan, a decent clawhammer folk fingerpicking style, in evidence on songs like "Dear Prudence".

Here's Donovan recounting this:



Here's a take on Lennon's (and, under his influence, McCartney's) developments in fingerpicking style: https://www.guitarplayer.com/technique/john-lennon-style-fingerpicking

And here's one technical look at some of The Beatles' guitar techniques:



McCartney and Starr are too well respected by renowned players of bass and drums over the years to need any serious defending, so I won't bother here, or this will be a very long post indeed.

None of them were classically trained, just self-taught, but this bred a humility that meant they were receptive to a wide range of influences and willing to learn from others, and they were blessed with excellent natural ears and sensibilities. They'd also happily bring in session payers when they'd add to a song (it's a great shame Billy Preston only joined them at the very tail end of their career).

Nevertheless, classically trained composer Howard Goodall has broadcast numerous times dissecting in awe The Beatles' composition techniques. If you can spare the time, any of his analyses online are well worth watching. Here's one:



Largely at McCartney's prodding, The Beatles embraced not just classical influences, but avante-garde ones, which came to spectacular fruition on "A Day In The Life", which I consider their masterpiece and listen to with fresh joy each time to this day. This then developed into still-startling songs like "I Am The Walrus", "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Tomorrow Never Knows".

When you consider the musical and technical advances (and let's not forget George Martin's invaluable contribution to both those aspects) packed into a band recording career that didn't even span a decade, it's just ignorant to dismiss the important contribution of these musicians to all our cultures. And on past form, they were never slow to acknowledge that they were just one bunch of guys among many others who were stretching boundaries during that period.

It's a shame Quincy Jones apparently doesn't rate them. It's entirely his loss.
At one point in my chaotic life, I worked in a record store Sophia4 Feb 2018 #1
they clearly "borrowed" a lot. but then, so do all musicians. unblock Feb 2018 #7
Ask You Shall Receive Miles Archer Feb 2018 #12
Not sure, but I believe that record thucythucy Feb 2018 #23
Yes. After all, Western music is composed from 12 tones. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #20
Im still tripping on Brando and Pryor getting it on, LOL. bettyellen Feb 2018 #2
I was just thinking about that this morning. skypilot Feb 2018 #47
i'm a huge beatles fan, but i don't really have a problem with this critique unblock Feb 2018 #3
They were a lot of fun and played their role. I have quite a collection of their records. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #21
You made me laugh pretty hard! PJMcK Feb 2018 #52
Agree, as a huge Beatles fan Freddie Feb 2018 #29
Yeah, I have a professional jazz drummer friend who thinks that Ringo is incredibly underrated. cemaphonic Feb 2018 #48
I actually heard Paul Allen play a number of years ago. nolabear Feb 2018 #4
Kinda classless zipplewrath Feb 2018 #5
I do think I have heard that they wanted George Harrison because they needed a real guitar player lunasun Feb 2018 #6
yes, paul tried to be lead guitarist of the quarrymen unblock Feb 2018 #8
and to their credit, they knew their limitations and worked within them. unblock Feb 2018 #9
The Prince Story Miles Archer Feb 2018 #13
I've said this many times, but geardaddy Feb 2018 #19
I saw him more than once. An early career concert he had it easier to go off set list and just play lunasun Feb 2018 #34
WOW! What a performance! democratisphere Feb 2018 #27
I've watched that many times, and it just blows me away every time. It was a real tribute. Arkansas Granny Feb 2018 #46
Right. They were a lot of fun. That was the point. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #22
60 year anniversary of George joining "The Quarrymen" was 3 days ago... Miles Archer Feb 2018 #25
qunicy's biggest 60's hit? It's My Party featuring Leslie Gore nt msongs Feb 2018 #10
John, Paul, and George could write better songs in a coma. John Fante Feb 2018 #53
Ass! chuckstevens Feb 2018 #11
Message to Q: "Turn on, tune in, drop out". Uptight mofo! oasis Feb 2018 #14
Well! We all know what opinions are like, dont we? Floyd R. Turbo Feb 2018 #15
a couple of interviews were out yesterday.... dhill926 Feb 2018 #16
Worse than Winger? lame54 Feb 2018 #17
Quincy's out of money? Iggo Feb 2018 #18
GO QUINCY GO! MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #24
Jerry Lee Lewis???? ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #26
The Killer speaks for me MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #30
We Are Diametrically Opposed With Regard To That ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #32
Has my writing been unclear? I am a huge JLL fan. Since you have a piano avatar as you mentioned MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #33
No I'm Not ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #36
Thanks for clearing that up. MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #37
Visited his restaurant in Memphis last year . Great history and a good band made for a great lunasun Feb 2018 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author Botany Feb 2018 #38
Never. MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #39
Sooo now someone is a Russian troll because they like QJones ?? Or don't like the Beatles?? lunasun Feb 2018 #41
I very well might be wrong but I doubt it Botany Feb 2018 #42
Yes, it's downright unAmerican to support American Quincy Jones' opinion that foreigners MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #43
Also, do you have a shred of evidence that I am a troll? MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #44
Okay, that's enough. Iggo Feb 2018 #50
Sad Cartoonist Feb 2018 #28
Pointless grumpy old man stuff BeyondGeography Feb 2018 #31
Old man who is losing it .... end of story. Botany Feb 2018 #35
I hope the Brando estate sues the piss out of this attention whore. sarcasmo Feb 2018 #45
A shame that a man with such an accomplished career feels a need to rag on fellow performers cemaphonic Feb 2018 #49
Who Cares What You Think Quincy Me. Feb 2018 #51
"Microsoft founder Paul Allen "sings and plays just like Jimi Hendrix." John Fante Feb 2018 #54
I don't like when musicians and actors criticize their peers n/t TexasBushwhacker Feb 2018 #55
Clickbait from Quincy, huh? Disappointing. Denzil_DC Feb 2018 #56
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