Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Aristus

(72,145 posts)
36. The truth about Wagner is that he was......complex.
Wed May 10, 2017, 10:49 AM
May 2017

He was an anti-Semite, and that was inexcusable, no matter how many of his contemporaries thought the same.

At the same time, most of his other views were highly progressive, even liberal, for their time. He was an ardent supporter of the left-wing revolutions in Europe in 1848, and was so vocal about them that he lost several appointments, and had to go into hiding in other countries.

His views toward women, on the operatic stage and off, were very forward-looking. Every one of his female characters, with the possible exception of Elsa in Lohengrin is smarter than all of his male characters. They are far more rational, practical, and exhibit better qualities of leadership than the male characters in leadership roles.

Wagner's opera Siegfried was a favorite of Hitler and the Nazis, because it is a celebration of the Northern European dynamic 'man of nature'; Siegfried, the fearless, heroic dragon slayer. However, Siegfried exhibits all of these traits without putting down or suppressing anyone whom one might call inferior, or use his demigod-like superiority to oppress anyone. He treats the dwarf, Mime, abominably, but it's worth pointing out that Mime cares nothing for Siegfried, and is only using him to get his greedy hands on the eponymous Ring of power the dragon guards in his hoard.

Still a huge Wagner fan, and probably always will be...

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Woody Allen The Blue Flower May 2017 #1
Woody Allen for the niece thing? retrowire May 2017 #3
Charlton Heston turned into a gun humping asshole Skittles May 2017 #5
Oh yeaaaah retrowire May 2017 #7
Yes, but there is a bright side to his death Generic Brad May 2017 #22
It was his adopted daughter WhiteTara May 2017 #37
Oh yeahhh retrowire May 2017 #38
I will NEVER give Country Music respect. Dawson Leery May 2017 #2
I won't give country music respect because it sucks as music. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #9
LOL! Dawson Leery May 2017 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #11
Yes. When Elvis Costello called Ray Charles "a blind, ignornant n*****r." japple May 2017 #4
Yikes. I knew I'd learn some shit by making this thread. retrowire May 2017 #6
No excuse for that kind of behavior. Dawson Leery May 2017 #8
I'm ambivalent about Richard Wagner. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #12
Yeah, I know what you mean about Wagner. It doesn't help that the Nazis appropriated his music. Coventina May 2017 #25
The truth about Wagner is that he was......complex. Aristus May 2017 #36
No, never Ron Obvious May 2017 #13
Smug eh? retrowire May 2017 #16
That situation sounds much too far-fetched to be credible. Ron Obvious May 2017 #23
I well remember buying some lovely picture postcards of Vienna from this nice young man... First Speaker May 2017 #14
Tom Waits refused to rewind his Blockbuster tapes and became dead to me. NightWatcher May 2017 #15
LMFAO literally underpants May 2017 #27
He is also a terrible fishing companion. cemaphonic May 2017 #46
You don't want to know where he put the fish, that's for sure. Orrex May 2017 #50
Used to be a big Nugent fan back in my teenage days. Comatose Sphagetti May 2017 #17
It's ok. I used to think Kid Rock was neat. lmao retrowire May 2017 #18
I was never a big fan of Kid Rock True Dough May 2017 #40
Used to own a copy of Great Gonzos... neeksgeek May 2017 #32
Poopy Pants? 💩 populistdriven May 2017 #35
Some mentioned above: Woody ALLEN, Richard WAGNER, HESTON, but then: UTUSN May 2017 #19
Mel Gibson is nuttier than squirrel shit, but I really like some of his movies, The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #41
Something similar: I haven't watched "Seinfeld" since Michael Richards' racist rant. brush May 2017 #53
Totally with you on Michael Richards Orrex May 2017 #57
Generally not. cemaphonic May 2017 #20
A lot of great artists were assholes, criminals or reprobates in some way. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #42
Orson Scott Card, when he went full fundy anti-gay Mormon. hunter May 2017 #21
Same here. Can no longer even consider buying one of his books and got rid of the ones I had. OregonBlue May 2017 #30
That one got me too. Also KISS, Elton John, Clint Eastwood populistdriven May 2017 #33
Elton John worked for rush.?? What? Nt retrowire May 2017 #39
Dan Simmons went off into paranoid rightwinger land after 9/11 too cemaphonic May 2017 #47
It was "Flashback" that did it, wasn't it? SwissTony May 2017 #59
Bill Cosby kwassa May 2017 #24
I memorized them too underpants May 2017 #26
Yep. He's gonna die in jail. brush May 2017 #55
Yeah. Me too lunatica May 2017 #61
The very first episode of the... 3catwoman3 May 2017 #62
Many times yes lunasun May 2017 #28
I'm with you on Corgan underpants May 2017 #29
On some levels, Neil Young. Miles Archer May 2017 #31
I had feared worse when I saw the title of this post... vi5 May 2017 #52
Edward Weston neeksgeek May 2017 #34
They had Ricky Skaggs on NPR a few weeks ago LeftInTX May 2017 #43
That's a shame - he's an incredible musician. cemaphonic May 2017 #49
Used to really dig Cat Stevens..... lastlib May 2017 #44
And he has never genuinely apologized either. cemaphonic May 2017 #45
I used to like the band Five Finger Death Punch. Initech May 2017 #48
Jackson Browne Soxfan58 May 2017 #51
Is that true? Orrex May 2017 #56
Difficult for me to figure out Jon Voight stillsoleft May 2017 #54
What happened? Black President happened. Iggo May 2017 #60
Yeah but.... stillsoleft May 2017 #63
Steve Miller Band... Fix The Stupid May 2017 #58
Latest Discussions»The DU Lounge»Have you ever fallen out ...»Reply #36