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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
4. This study of predictions shows your sources are the least reliable of all available.
Thu May 23, 2013, 04:27 PM
May 2013

Last edited Thu May 23, 2013, 05:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Conventional Wisdom About Clean Energy Is Still Way Out of Date

“It’s not 1990 anymore.”


CHRIS NELDER: MAY 9, 2013

"We're fifteen to twenty years out of date in how we think about renewables," said Dr. Eric Martinot to an audience at the first Pathways to 100% Renewables Conference held April 16 in San Francisco. "It's not 1990 anymore."

Dr. Martinot and his team recently compiled their 2013 Renewables Global Futures report from two years of research in which they conducted interviews with 170 experts and policymakers from fifteen countries, including local city officials and stakeholders from more than twenty cities. They also reviewed more than 50 recently published scenarios by credible international organizations, energy companies, and research institutes, along with government policy targets for renewable energy, and various corporate reports and energy literature.

The report observes that "[t]he history of energy scenarios is full of similar projections for renewable energy that proved too low by a factor of 10, or were achieved a decade earlier than expected." For example, the International Energy Agency's 2000 estimate for wind power in 2010 was 34 gigawatts, while the actual level was 200 gigawatts. The World Bank's 1996 estimate for China was 9 gigawatts of wind and 0.5 gigawatts for solar PV by 2020, but by 2011 the country had already achieved 62 gigawatts of wind and 3 gigawatts of PV.

Dr. Martinot's conclusion from this exhaustive survey? "The conservative scenarios are simply no longer credible."

There is now a yawning gap between "conservative" scenarios and more optimistic ones, as illustrated in this chart contrasting scenarios published in 2012 by entities like the IEA and ExxonMobil with those offered by groups like the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis (an international scientific policy research organization), Greenpeace, and the World Wildlife Fund...


http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/conventional-wisdom-about-clean-energy-is-way-out-of-date?utm_source=Solar&utm_medium=Picture&utm_campaign=GTMDaily

There is a lot of negativity on this board and a great deal of it is aimed at the timetable for deploying renewables. The study in the OP confirms my own research on this topic - research that forms the basis for my outlook on what is coming down the pike for our energy future.

The thoughts I share on the our energy future are often termed "overly optimistic" (to use the most polite phrase), and inevitably the person holding that view will buttresses their argument with the IEA or EIA numbers. I hope this post gives some food for thought for those who misuse the word Cornucopian to let me know they think I'm being unrealistic. One particular poster, in fact, just loves to use the EIA, BP and IEA numbers to create graphs reflecting his feelings of gloom and despair.

Let's recap the numbers above:
..."projections for renewable energy that proved too low by a factor of 10, or were achieved a decade earlier than expected"

in 2000 International Energy Agency saysin 2010 wind power will be at 34 gigawatts;
actual level was 200 gigawatts.

1996 World Bank estimate for China by 2020:
9 gigawatts of wind and 0.5 gigawatts for solar PV
China in 2011 has 62 gigawatts of wind and 3 gigawatts of PV (and they are just getting started - k)

10 years ahead of schedule and wind is 7X+ while solar is 6X. How much do you think they will exceed World Bank predictions by the time 2020 actually gets here?


So when you look at charts like this:


Or tables like this:


Remember who has a record of poor predictions. That isn't saying we are going to address this threat as fast as we need to, but at least let's start the discussion about what we are going to do with a realistic eye on what is good analysis and what isn't.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I very much want to hear from those at DU who repeatedly claim that this profile is wrong. Buzz Clik May 2013 #1
Renewables Jesus has the answer. wtmusic May 2013 #2
This study of predictions shows your sources are the least reliable of all available. kristopher May 2013 #4
Excellent rebuttal, as usual. Stay after them. nt ladjf May 2013 #18
The Original Post Reality Check Wilms May 2013 #3
You forgot the EIA wtmusic May 2013 #5
See article in post 4 kristopher May 2013 #6
Nah. I posted a comment about "their" data, too Wilms May 2013 #7
What's your point? wtmusic May 2013 #9
Written by the president of an "alternative energy" company who stands to profit immensely wtmusic May 2013 #8
Really now. Is a photo of fat Rex Tillerson supposed to prove something? wtmusic May 2013 #11
First off, that isn't Tillerson. Wilms May 2013 #13
Apology accepted. wtmusic May 2013 #15
I will admit that I haven't read the article. Archaic May 2013 #10
The graph forecasts a drop in coal use (by percentage) wtmusic May 2013 #12
I sure hope somebody comes up with a very stronge CCS program. Archaic May 2013 #22
Read it, and will await the 2nd article Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #14
Wind is the fastest growing in terms of percentage. It's insignificant, before and after. wtmusic May 2013 #16
See below. Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #17
2012: 100GW total global PV -- By 2018 Additional 220GW only rooftop to be added kristopher May 2013 #19
I'm aware of that, but am skeptical. Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #20
Solar HAS come down to a level where it is competitive kristopher May 2013 #21
A number of 100mw to 300mw solar pv plants will be built over the next 18 months- in the US. FogerRox May 2013 #27
Wind is "cheap" because of the production tax credit wtmusic May 2013 #23
As regards CO2, Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #24
No, not terrible. Natgas generates about 60% as much CO2 as coal wtmusic May 2013 #25
I think people deliberately spreading known misinformation like this should be banned from EE kristopher May 2013 #26
Are utilities required to buy the cheapest power? FogerRox May 2013 #28
No, that is when they turn of fossil fuels and use wind instead. kristopher May 2013 #29
Interesting, but you do realize, I hope, that a backup is always going to be necessary. Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #31
Your meaning isn't clear, but I think the IEEE article is. kristopher May 2013 #32
Neither agree nor disagree Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #30
You seem to be studiously avoiding the subject of the production tax credit wtmusic May 2013 #33
Not sure where you're coming from, Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #34
Ah, the credit is only temporary. wtmusic May 2013 #35
...and it will never store more energy ever in all eternity, right? Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #36
We don't have all eternity. wtmusic May 2013 #37
Risk management Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #38
Based on your analogy, you would support an immediate evacuation of Wyoming. wtmusic May 2013 #39
You're not getting it Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #41
Renewables do nothing about fossil fuel usage 4dsc May 2013 #40
See below Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #42
But on the other hand... GliderGuider May 2013 #43
I see your hand and raise you... Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #44
A dropping % indicates a linear rise in concentration... GliderGuider May 2013 #45
True, but as I tried to point out, that's the dog that's not barking Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #47
China took in our washing - that took care of part of it. nt GliderGuider May 2013 #48
Maybe the linear CO2 concentration growth trend is coincidental? Socialistlemur May 2013 #49
Plants are known to grow better at greater CO2 concentrations, Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #50
After further review CO2 increase is constrained by ocean Socialistlemur May 2013 #52
I've been wanting to test whether the seasonal variability is in fact increasing, Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #59
In PPM terms there is a slight uptrend in variability Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #60
Renewables are not a substitute for oil 4dsc May 2013 #51
Same thing: as oil supplies dwindle prices increase..renewables kick in Socialistlemur May 2013 #53
You miss the whole point 4dsc May 2013 #54
You would have to show why solar wont do the job eventually Socialistlemur May 2013 #55
There's this little problem about nighttime, and when the wind dies. wtmusic May 2013 #56
I think you mean the wind power industry? Socialistlemur May 2013 #57
Natural gas peaking plants fill in the gaps when solar and wind aren't working wtmusic May 2013 #58
My energy utility blew up an adjacent neighborhood about 2 years ago CreekDog May 2013 #46
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