Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
33. You seem to be studiously avoiding the subject of the production tax credit
Fri May 24, 2013, 04:55 PM
May 2013

which is the really the only reason why wind's prices are as low as they are. As you said yourself, no businessman likes uncertainly - and when wind is dependent on government handouts it doesn't get much more uncertain:

"The wind energy industry is dependent on something even more unpredictable than wind: Congress. Hidden in the turmoil over the "fiscal cliff" compromise was a tax credit for wind energy.

Uncertainty over the credit had lingered long before the last-minute political push, causing the industry to put off further long-term planning. So while the now-approved tax credit revives prospects for an industry facing tens of thousands of layoffs, don't expect to see many new turbines coming up soon.

Growing Uncertainty

Mark Goodwin, head of developer Apex Wind Energy, says his company was "on pins and needles" over the "fiscal cliff" negotiations. It was worried about extension of the tax credit, which keeps wind energy prices competitive with electricity produced from fossil fuels."

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/03/168553495/wind-industry-secures-tax-credit-but-damage-may-be-done

Energy is everywhere. If you subsidize any number of technologies enough, you can squeeze energy out. But wind is costing taxpayers $12 billion/year and providing 2.3% of America's utility power, nearly all of it in Plains states with very little effect on prices east of the Mississippi.

You say wind is going to be "dispatchable" - how? In what possible respect could you guarantee that wind will be available at any time? Saying that there is "too much at stake for it not to happen" is just goofy, and where the whole renewable movement jumps the shark. The fact is, that there's a much better chance that despite increases in efficiency, in patching in windfarms from across the country, in occupying vast stretches of real estate with wires and batteries and switching systems and backup systems that the juice is just never going to be worth the squeeze.

Climate change is on us now, and we're playing games with toys.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I very much want to hear from those at DU who repeatedly claim that this profile is wrong. Buzz Clik May 2013 #1
Renewables Jesus has the answer. wtmusic May 2013 #2
This study of predictions shows your sources are the least reliable of all available. kristopher May 2013 #4
Excellent rebuttal, as usual. Stay after them. nt ladjf May 2013 #18
The Original Post Reality Check Wilms May 2013 #3
You forgot the EIA wtmusic May 2013 #5
See article in post 4 kristopher May 2013 #6
Nah. I posted a comment about "their" data, too Wilms May 2013 #7
What's your point? wtmusic May 2013 #9
Written by the president of an "alternative energy" company who stands to profit immensely wtmusic May 2013 #8
Really now. Is a photo of fat Rex Tillerson supposed to prove something? wtmusic May 2013 #11
First off, that isn't Tillerson. Wilms May 2013 #13
Apology accepted. wtmusic May 2013 #15
I will admit that I haven't read the article. Archaic May 2013 #10
The graph forecasts a drop in coal use (by percentage) wtmusic May 2013 #12
I sure hope somebody comes up with a very stronge CCS program. Archaic May 2013 #22
Read it, and will await the 2nd article Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #14
Wind is the fastest growing in terms of percentage. It's insignificant, before and after. wtmusic May 2013 #16
See below. Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #17
2012: 100GW total global PV -- By 2018 Additional 220GW only rooftop to be added kristopher May 2013 #19
I'm aware of that, but am skeptical. Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #20
Solar HAS come down to a level where it is competitive kristopher May 2013 #21
A number of 100mw to 300mw solar pv plants will be built over the next 18 months- in the US. FogerRox May 2013 #27
Wind is "cheap" because of the production tax credit wtmusic May 2013 #23
As regards CO2, Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #24
No, not terrible. Natgas generates about 60% as much CO2 as coal wtmusic May 2013 #25
I think people deliberately spreading known misinformation like this should be banned from EE kristopher May 2013 #26
Are utilities required to buy the cheapest power? FogerRox May 2013 #28
No, that is when they turn of fossil fuels and use wind instead. kristopher May 2013 #29
Interesting, but you do realize, I hope, that a backup is always going to be necessary. Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #31
Your meaning isn't clear, but I think the IEEE article is. kristopher May 2013 #32
Neither agree nor disagree Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #30
You seem to be studiously avoiding the subject of the production tax credit wtmusic May 2013 #33
Not sure where you're coming from, Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #34
Ah, the credit is only temporary. wtmusic May 2013 #35
...and it will never store more energy ever in all eternity, right? Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #36
We don't have all eternity. wtmusic May 2013 #37
Risk management Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #38
Based on your analogy, you would support an immediate evacuation of Wyoming. wtmusic May 2013 #39
You're not getting it Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #41
Renewables do nothing about fossil fuel usage 4dsc May 2013 #40
See below Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #42
But on the other hand... GliderGuider May 2013 #43
I see your hand and raise you... Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #44
A dropping % indicates a linear rise in concentration... GliderGuider May 2013 #45
True, but as I tried to point out, that's the dog that's not barking Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #47
China took in our washing - that took care of part of it. nt GliderGuider May 2013 #48
Maybe the linear CO2 concentration growth trend is coincidental? Socialistlemur May 2013 #49
Plants are known to grow better at greater CO2 concentrations, Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #50
After further review CO2 increase is constrained by ocean Socialistlemur May 2013 #52
I've been wanting to test whether the seasonal variability is in fact increasing, Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #59
In PPM terms there is a slight uptrend in variability Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2013 #60
Renewables are not a substitute for oil 4dsc May 2013 #51
Same thing: as oil supplies dwindle prices increase..renewables kick in Socialistlemur May 2013 #53
You miss the whole point 4dsc May 2013 #54
You would have to show why solar wont do the job eventually Socialistlemur May 2013 #55
There's this little problem about nighttime, and when the wind dies. wtmusic May 2013 #56
I think you mean the wind power industry? Socialistlemur May 2013 #57
Natural gas peaking plants fill in the gaps when solar and wind aren't working wtmusic May 2013 #58
My energy utility blew up an adjacent neighborhood about 2 years ago CreekDog May 2013 #46
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»The Renewable Energy Real...»Reply #33