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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
11. ROFL - Again, just reiterating basic natural resource economics doesn't show ...
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 10:38 AM
Jun 2015

...that the availability of lithium is any kind of constraint that will not be met by normal market mechanisms.

However, gross inefficiency - such as we see with storage via hydrogen - is most definitely a deal killer.

Below is shamelessly copied from Mike Shurtleff's 3 day old comments to this article:
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Is-There-Enough-Lithium-to-Maintain-the-Growth-of-the-Lithium-Ion-Battery-M

But before we get to Mike's list, I'll quote "anon" commenting on the same article:

"Boy, wouldn't it suck to be one of those EV companies that sells enough cars to EXHAUST THE WORLD'S LITHIUM SUPPLY?
Man, that would suck.
Seriously, if this is a concern in my lifetime, then we as an industry have done something monumental."


Now, back to Mr. Mike's compilation:
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1434
“Lithium in Abundance”
April 2008
“Evans pointed out that a single geothermal well in southern California can produce enough lithium to meet all of the world's current demand for lithium.”

“There are also lithium-bearing clays called Hectorite and oilfield brines that contain commercially-viable concentrations of lithium, though they would be more expensive to produce”

“He estimates it at 28.4 million tonnes of lithium, which is equivalent to 150 million tonnes of lithium carbonate. Current world demand is 16,000 tonnes.”

“His conclusion is that "concerns regarding lithium availability for hybrid or electric vehicle batteries or other foreseeable applications are unfounded."

http://www.worldlithium.com/Home_files/An%20Abundance%20of%20Lithium.pdf
“AN ABUNDANCE OF LITHIUM” by R. Keith Evans
March 2008

http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1457
“Peak Lithium or Lithium in Abundance?”
May 2008
More on peak lithium issue. Some good comments.

...

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/geothermal-power-lithium-mining-two-in-one-in-california
“Geothermal Power, Lithium Mining Two-in-One in California”
September 2009

http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9881869-54.html
Simbol Mining - “Mining lithium from geothermal 'lemonade' ”
Feb 2008
“The start-up eventually aims to mine more than 100,000 tons of lithium carbonate each year from geothermal sources. That's more than the current annual market for the compound; the company expects demands for it to quintuple by 2013.“


http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427385.700-battery-lithium-could-come-from-geothermal-waste-water.html
“Battery lithium could come from geothermal waste water”
Dec 2009

“A GEOTHERMAL power plant in California will soon be producing more than just electricity.”

“The valuable metal lithium could be extracted from its hot waste water.”

”geothermal waters at the Salton Sea, about 250 kilometres inland and on top of the active San Andreas fault, are just as lithium-rich as the most productive brine lakes in Bolivia and Chile. Simbol says Salton's waters can be exploited with a much smaller environmental footprint.”

“Simbol is now building its first demonstration plant, projected to produce about 1 tonne of lithium metal a month”

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/07/simbol-20100704.html
“Report: Itochu To Join Lithium Extraction Project in California”
July 2010
“The Nikkei reports that Itochu Corp. is participating in a project to extract lithium from the produced water from geothermal power generation at a site in California.”

http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=19441
“New Lithium Carbonate Prospects Identified in Argentina”
October 2008

http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2009/03/27/gms-volt-lithium-batteries/
“GM’s Volt & Global Lithium Reserves”
March 2009
“If you run these numbers, it appears we can build 2.42 billion EVs before we run out of known lithium reserves.”

http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1692
“TRU Group's Lithium Outlook”
April 2009
“Hired by Mitsubishi, his firm's research strongly suggests that the current supply chain of lithium carbonate producers is adequate to meet future demand out to around 2020, though he does see potential constraints starting to develop around 2017 as the market for electric car batteries begins to heat up.”


http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Rodinia-Minerals-Inc-TSX-VENTURE-RM-1037656.html
August 2009
“Rodinia Minerals Inc.: Clayton Valley Lithium Project Drilling Update”
“The lithium-bearing brines are found in layers of volcanic ash and gravels down to the basement of the basin estimated to occur at a depth of 2800'. The current round of drilling will go to a depth of 1200', deeper drilling will be considered for a future program. Production from the existing Silver Peak facility in Clayton Valley is generated from lithium brines in the volcanic ash layer at a depth of 300'.” ”An additional 2D reflective seismic survey is planned and will extend the current lines north from an existing production well and to the east and west boundaries of the valley.”

http://www.safehaven.com/article-12965.htm “Obama, Lithium, Uranium and Rodinia” – March 2009

http://www.rodiniaminerals.com/ (symbol RDNAF)

http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=21825
“Is There Enough Lithium for Electric Car Boom? Most Experts Say Yes”
September 2009
“SYNOPSIS: Between new lithium resources and recycling, proponents see enough lithium for electric car batteries into the foreseeable future.”


http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10357588-48.html
“Enough lithium for hybrid boom? Most say yes”
September 2009


http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Lithium+mine+will+help+power+revolution/2260866/story.html
November 2009
“Quebec lithium mine will help power electric-car revolution”
“Quebec will have a mine north of Val d'Or on stream in 2011 and Australia's Talison Lithium, the world's biggest single producer, is coming with an initial public share offering in Canada and at home.”

http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=23518
“Afghanistan Could Be 'Saudi Arabia' of Lithium” - June 2010
“SYNOPSIS: Previously unknown deposits include huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium, all vital of green tech economy.” “The United States has discovered nearly $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan”


http://www.pv-tech.org/news/solarworld_goes_from_modules_to_mining
“SolarWorld goes from modules to mining” - March 2011

“the company has announced plans to start prospecting for lithium on its doorstep in Saxony, Germany. SolarWorld said it had received official approval from the Saxon State Minister for Economic Affairs to start prospecting in the Eastern part of the Erzgebirge Mountains.”

“The Saxony-located lithium deposits were claimed to be among the ten largest lithium deposits in the world.”

“ ‘in lithium batteries final consumers will in future store their home-made solar power for self-consumption’ “


http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/08/lithium-20110803.html - August 2011
“University of Michigan and Ford researchers see plentiful lithium resources for electric vehicles” - August 2011

“Researchers from the University of Michigan and Ford Motor Co. report in Journal of Industrial Ecology that even with a rapid and widespread adoption of electric vehicles powered by lithium-ion batteries, lithium resources are sufficient to support demand until at least the end of this century.”

“The researchers compiled data on 103 deposits containing lithium, with an emphasis on 32 deposits that have a lithium resource of more than 100,000 metric tons each.”

http://www.uwyo.edu/uw/news/2013/04/uw-researchers-lithium-discovery-could-boost-co2-storage-prospects.html - April 2013
“UW Researchers’ Lithium Discovery Could Boost CO2 Storage Prospects” “April 24, 2013 — Researchers at the University of Wyoming Carbon Management Institute (CMI) discovered a vast new lithium resource near Rock Springs during a geological carbon dioxide storage site characterization project sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy.” “Preliminary analyses of fluid samples collected from a well drilled on the Rock Springs Uplift -- a geological feature in southwest Wyoming -- suggest that reservoir brines from a 25-square-mile area of the uplift could contain 228,000 tons of lithium: enough to meet annual U.S. demand.” “To help put this number in perspective, the lithium reserves at Silver Peak, Nev. -- the largest domestic producer of lithium -- total 118,000 tons in a 20-square-mile area. In a best-case scenario, the 2,000-square-mile Rock Springs Uplift could harbor up to 18 million tons of lithium, equivalent to about 720 years of current global lithium production.”

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/vast-reserves-lithium-found-wyoming-could-meet-all-us-demand.html- April 2013
“Massive deposit of lithium found in Wyoming could meet all U.S. demand”

“Currently, the U.S. imports more than 80% of the lithium it uses, despite the fact that Bolivia alone has enough lithium reserves for 4.8 billion electric cars and that lithium can be recycled from old batteries (it doesn't disappear after use like oil), some people are concerned about our civilization's increased dependence on the soft silver-white metal. It's true that the
  • element is finding its way into everything, from phones to cars. But most signs seem to point toward lithium's availability going up and its price going down over time, not the reverse. This would be great for the electrification of transportation via plug-in hybrids and fully electric cars.”

    “The latest development that supports that thesis comes from researchers at the University of Wyoming. They've found lithium - a lot of it - in Rock Springs Uplift, a geological feature in southwest Wyoming. Data so far suggests that brines from a 25-square-mile area could contain 228,000 tons of lithium. That's enough to meet annual U.S. demand, and almost twice as much as the reserves from the biggest domestic lithium producer (located at Silver Peak, in Nevada).”
  • Recommendations

    0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

    How much lithium is thrown away and end up in municipal dumps? -none Jun 2015 #1
    Unfortunately recycling Lithium Ion batteries is not like recycling paper OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #2
    AN ABUNDANCE OF LITHIUM kristopher Jun 2015 #3
    Both parts are… seven years old… OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #4
    "Has anything changed since then?" kristopher Jun 2015 #5
    Tesla's Lithium Supply Constraints Might Hamper Its Growth OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #6
    Poor little hydrogen loving feller just can't face the facts... kristopher Jun 2015 #7
    BU-308: Availability of Lithium OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #8
    You really need to stop huffing the hydrogen... kristopher Jun 2015 #9
    Rare Metals Supply and Demand OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #10
    ROFL - Again, just reiterating basic natural resource economics doesn't show ... kristopher Jun 2015 #11
    Critical materials research needed to secure U.S. manufacturing, officials say OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #12
    Dear Hydrogen Dude: just saying it doesn't make it so... kristopher Jun 2015 #13
    Lithium hydroxide prices edge up on tighter supply OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #14
    Dear Hydrogen Dude: Yes, and...? kristopher Jun 2015 #15
    Hydrogen Haters nationalize the fed Jun 2015 #16
    Strangely enough… OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #17
    You are participating in a well known FUD campaign. kristopher Jun 2015 #18
    It seems odd to me that the Critical Materials Institute is engaged in FUD OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #19
    No, the govt scientists are legitimate kristopher Jun 2015 #20
    I see… Perhaps you need greater context for one of my earlier posts… OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #21
    Are you claiming you honestly don't know the difference between... kristopher Jun 2015 #22
    You’ve put words in my mouth from the very start OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #23
    Of course you can't document that... kristopher Jun 2015 #24
    Please, point to where I said there was a “lack of a raw resource” OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #25
    Your post #6 coming as a response to exchange in posts 3-5. kristopher Jun 2015 #26
    Post #6 does not say there is a lack of Lithium in the world OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #27
    Sure Hydrogen Dude, whatever you now say... kristopher Jun 2015 #28
    As I said, you’ve put words in my mouth. OKIsItJustMe Jun 2015 #29
    Sure Hydrogen Dude, whatever you now say. kristopher Jun 2015 #30
    I Think You Guys Would Argue With Yourselves I You Didn't Have Each Other CajunBlazer Jun 2015 #32
    Human Ingenuity Concurs All CajunBlazer Jun 2015 #31
    Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Quest to Mine Seawater fo...»Reply #11