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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
11. I'm lightening up a bit on my position regarding sustainable population levels
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 10:00 AM
Aug 2015

Now I characterize my lowball estimates as one end of a probability distribution curve. Because if this I'd say that we are in overshoot by anywhere between 60% (according to the Global Footprint Network estimate, which I think id extremely optimistic) and 1,000,000% (one of my lowest estimates: quite pessimistic). In order to put numbers on both cases I use the I=P(AT) formula, where AT is the average human activity/impact level, measured through the proxy of exosomatic energy consumption in watts per person.

Arithmetically speaking:

Correcting a 60% overshoot would require a world population reduction to 4.5 billion people at today's world average energy consumption levels, or 1 billion average Americans.
Correcting a 1,000,000% overshoot would require a reduction to 15 million foragers, 1 million people with today's world average energy consumption levels, or 225,000 average Americans.

The "real" number, if there is or even could be one, would likely fall somewhere between those two limits.

The reason I gravitate towards the lowest number is that 15 million was about the population of the world in about 5,000 BCE, not long after the beginnings of agriculture. I could perhaps be talked into raising that lower bound to 50 million foragers - the estimated population in 1,000 BCE. However I'm reluctant to do so, because anthropogenic damage like the desertification of the Fertile Crescent was already in progress by then, so that situation doesn't meet a strict definition of "sustainable". In addition, supporting 15 million foragers would certainly require hunting for meat, and most of the big wild animals that provided meat in the past are now gone. Animal husbandry is at least as ecologically damaging as crop agriculture, so I don't see it as having a widespread role in such a future.

This assessment ignores the long-term effects of climate change and pollution from our extraction, manufacturing and energy production industries (abandoned mines, leaking hydrocarbon wells, industrial waste, coal slag, nuclear reactor waste etc.) which will certainly lower the planet's carrying capacity by some significant amount. IMO when those effects are factored in, there is no longer a lower bound.

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"worst-case thinking" bias (AKA “doomer” bias) OKIsItJustMe Aug 2015 #1
Yes, the same bias is part of my lowball estimate of our sustainability. GliderGuider Aug 2015 #2
I'm lightening up a bit on my position regarding sustainable population levels GliderGuider Aug 2015 #11
“I characterize my lowball estimates as one end of a probability distribution curve.” OKIsItJustMe Aug 2015 #12
Yep. Conditions change, and our knowledge of the factors involved do as well. GliderGuider Aug 2015 #13
“That goes for people too.” OKIsItJustMe Aug 2015 #14
Why haven’t we had a “World War” recently? GliderGuider Aug 2015 #15
World Wars strike me as “group” activities OKIsItJustMe Aug 2015 #17
Apology accepted. bananas Aug 2015 #3
You're most welcome. GliderGuider Aug 2015 #4
Very mature position FBaggins Aug 2015 #6
"Peak Oil" was the optimistic view. That filthy stuff is destroying the world. hunter Aug 2015 #5
I think this post, plus the OP, plus one of GG's former posts... FBaggins Aug 2015 #7
To be clear, my point is not that PO theory was wrong (that's a different discussion) GliderGuider Aug 2015 #8
Peak Oil seemed to be a type of psychological operation Fast Walker 52 Aug 2015 #9
Peak oil has two huge problems, that generally are ignored till it is to late. happyslug Aug 2015 #10
Excellent post. It's a complex problem. Yo_Mama Aug 2015 #16
Psychology is a real stumbling block in group dynamics GliderGuider Aug 2015 #18
I’m going to go with “A major obstacle.” OKIsItJustMe Aug 2015 #19
I think the bandwagon underestimated the establishment psychology cprise Aug 2015 #20
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