Gun Control & RKBA

pipoman

(16,038 posts)

137. No compex proxies or numbers juggling

Sun Dec 18, 2011, 09:49 AM

Dec 2011

to see that violent crime statistics are falling every year, almost without exception. The number of guns in private ownership is rising at the fastest rate in history. The number of people legally carrying guns is increasing at the fastest rate in a century. Gun laws are being liberalized in almost every state. Complex, made up theorems are only needed if trying to disprove simple math...insurance actuaries employed by wealthy insurance companies are masters of muddying otherwise clear waters to benefit their cause..justifying excessively high premiums unjustly.

Suicide rates are pretty static and have been for a long time. Suicide is much easier to see as a societal problem. Some geographic locations and societies have higher rates, others have lower rates both directly related to environmental and cultural issues. Availability of tools is the smallest determinate in the suicide equation.

My peeve is the term "gun violence" or as you state "gun deaths". It is silly to quantify this as if it has any meaning..nonsensical actually. It has no bearing on anything...meaningless...unless one has an agenda of instilling fear in attempt to infringe on a right without real statistics.

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Point Click, Fire: An Undercover Investigation of Illegal Online Gun Sales [View all] ellisonz Dec 2011 OP

did they report these to the ATF gejohnston Dec 2011 #1

Gun control advocates honest? Like the "assault rifle" that wasn't an assault rifle? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #2

Who says I'm a Bloomberg fan... ellisonz Dec 2011 #6

define best gejohnston Dec 2011 #8

Yes. ellisonz Dec 2011 #10

Um... Straw Man Dec 2011 #12

If you'd like to believe I have a sketchy grasp... ellisonz Dec 2011 #16

no one is saying that gejohnston Dec 2011 #20

Just an old piece of paper on which our government is founded. PavePusher Dec 2011 #75

"Why should firearms be oh so special?" - Uhm, becuase they are SPECIFICALLY mentioned as a Right cleanhippie Dec 2011 #94

Within the context of "a well regulated Militia" ellisonz Dec 2011 #146

No, the operative clause in the Second is... SteveW Dec 2011 #156

Volokh is a svengali. ellisonz Dec 2011 #157

How old are you? gejohnston Dec 2011 #164

How old are you? ellisonz Dec 2011 #167

How old are you? ellisonz Dec 2011 #169

what slander? gejohnston Dec 2011 #171

Dude, one day you'll see the light. ellisonz Dec 2011 #172

but first gejohnston Dec 2011 #173

Yeah it is that time of the year... ellisonz Dec 2011 #174

No, just one of many, indeed most, scholars who hold an individual right... SteveW Dec 2011 #321

I'm sorry. ellisonz Dec 2011 #326

"15%" Creating numbers, now? nt SteveW Dec 2011 #364

No more than the claim... ellisonz Dec 2011 #369

I wish you had access to the ability to comprehend We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #373

So where did you get that "15%" from? You can find sources... SteveW Dec 2011 #380

You can try to argue that nonsense if you want, but you asked a question, and now you know WHY... cleanhippie Dec 2011 #165

A "well regulated" right. ellisonz Dec 2011 #166

regulated in 18th Century meant equipped so gejohnston Dec 2011 #168

I think that could be taken to mean a couple clear things... ellisonz Dec 2011 #170

OMG! You are actually quoting a 1999 article that uses Michael Bellisles as the "expert"! DonP Dec 2011 #181

At least I'm not cuddling with Charlton Heston... ellisonz Dec 2011 #184

Normally ignorance is a curable condition, but in your case it appears to be hopeless DonP Dec 2011 #185

Ahh the arrogance, anger, and vitriol of denialists... ellisonz Dec 2011 #186

a lot of flaws in the study gejohnston Dec 2011 #187

From your own link: ellisonz Dec 2011 #188

narrow minded? gejohnston Dec 2011 #198

Nobody reasonably expects a criminologist to be an expert on emergency medicine. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #199

When establishing "restrictions," be aware of the Second Amendment. SteveW Dec 2011 #147

"a well regulated Militia" ellisonz Dec 2011 #149

I have read many sources, current and historical. You are wrong. SteveW Dec 2011 #158

Your position is ahistorical. ellisonz Dec 2011 #320

If you want to go by that... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #323

The right thing is having half a dozen handguns? ellisonz Dec 2011 #325

I'll own as many as I wish We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #366

I can make a mockery of anyone who argues such silliness. ellisonz Dec 2011 #367

Go for it. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #371

Your points are simplistic, circular, and ahistorical... ellisonz Dec 2011 #372

I wonder if you even know what that sentence means.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #374

Interesting, can't say I disagree with the content. Your point? nt SteveW Dec 2011 #365

Regulation of the Militia... ellisonz Dec 2011 #368

Once again.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #370

Now you're disagreeing with our ownself within you're own argument. ellisonz Dec 2011 #375

You need to check up on what "well-regulated" meant... SteveW Dec 2011 #381

Oh I've checked... ellisonz Dec 2011 #382

Like in Kelo v. New London, where property was taken for corporate enrichment? It feels good. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #383

Yes. I agree with that decision. ellisonz Dec 2011 #386

Didn't you just quote Heller in another thread? Reallly, pal.... SteveW Dec 2011 #384

Oh my... ellisonz Dec 2011 #385

So, do you wish to do away with the militia and the laws governing them? SteveW Dec 2011 #387

I wish to view the right to bear arms as connected with *official* militia service. ellisonz Dec 2011 #388

I'm sure you do, but you would still be wrong... SteveW Dec 2011 #389

Why, yes he did- approvingly. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #391

"Well regulated" means well equipped and trained hack89 Dec 2011 #307

"...but that's not seen as harassment of law-abiding citizens..." HALO141 Dec 2011 #212

Really? What other products require and an FBI background check before sale? DonP Dec 2011 #13

FDA, USDA, OHSA, IRS etc... ellisonz Dec 2011 #17

So, you bought a gun with no backgorund check then, interesting for a control supporter DonP Dec 2011 #24

Have you ever killed a man in combat? ellisonz Dec 2011 #27

Door gunner in the 1st Cav, 17 th Airmobile out of Phu Loi DonP Dec 2011 #32

So did no one else back home have any basis for thinking the war was wrong? ellisonz Dec 2011 #42

You do know that violence in the US is at a 35 year low, right? Your friend nonwithstanding. DonP Dec 2011 #58

Yes I do. ellisonz Dec 2011 #60

So, based on your approach, as a man I should be able to dictate abortion law, right? DonP Dec 2011 #63

I don't see the point of the AWB hack89 Dec 2011 #73

And of course we can trust the police implicitly with our civil rights hack89 Dec 2011 #88

"mass weapons distrobution" PavePusher Dec 2011 #77

So you would be happier is she had been robbed at knife point? GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #114

Yes. ellisonz Dec 2011 #118

"Knife's are less prone to accidents." EX500rider Dec 2011 #122

In real life, knife robberies are more violent, and produce more injuries. GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #125

I just cut myself today with a bread knife DissedByBush Dec 2011 #131

Which one is more prone to fatal accidents? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #223

Its not tracked... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #225

What's not tracked? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #247

Accidental death by knives specifically. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #302

Boy, you're grasping at straws now. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #314

Not hardly We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #316

1150 accidental gun deaths a year is rare? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #319

Can you do math? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #324

That wasn't the statement n/t DissedByBush Dec 2011 #280

No, it was my question. Care to respond? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #292

Since the forum is about guns DissedByBush Dec 2011 #312

Knife vs gun attack one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #308

And a former coworker of mine was repeatedly stabbed in the abdomen... Marengo Dec 2011 #138

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #76

Non sequitur. You were asked very specifically, yet you dodge... cleanhippie Dec 2011 #95

ATF... Straw Man Dec 2011 #25

I think they should impinge more. ellisonz Dec 2011 #29

You're educating yourself a bit -- that's a start. Straw Man Dec 2011 #124

Uh, the "Gungeon" is made up of individuals: Ask them... SteveW Dec 2011 #150

:sarcasm: ellisonz Dec 2011 #151

I take it you are out of juice? Visit the grocer. Oh! :sarcasm: SteveW Dec 2011 #159

Did you mean to say you don't own a firearm? Marengo Dec 2011 #89

Typo. ellisonz Dec 2011 #99

You claim to reside in California one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #309

"Why are firearms so special?" Because your right to them is a Constitutional right. SteveW Dec 2011 #390

And there is your problem-you don't know the actual laws, only what others have told you about them. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #18

I think I've been fairly specific... ellisonz Dec 2011 #19

You're the one that wants changes- so explain those you deem necessary. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #22

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #26

That's interesting, but rifles of all sorts are used in less than 3% of crimes. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #30

With new extended magazine clips... ellisonz Dec 2011 #35

Tsk, tsk. The search function is *not* your friend on this one: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #46

You must have missed my post #10 above. ellisonz Dec 2011 #51

I believe you are less concerned with preventing gun crime and more in preventing gun ownership. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #55

Now, now, you forget that gun control supporters support Bloomie and Scott Walker DonP Dec 2011 #93

You weren't here for a discussion. PavePusher Dec 2011 #81

What's the point of the assault weapons ban? hack89 Dec 2011 #90

a few points gejohnston Dec 2011 #52

"extended magazine clips".... You are parroting fear-mongering buzz words..... PavePusher Dec 2011 #80

Under the expired assault weapons ban high capacity magazines were never banned... spin Dec 2011 #92

Irrelevent to the question posed to you. Dodge. n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #79

You do realize that if the 1994 AWB had been reauthorized it would not have prevented Loughner... aikoaiko Dec 2011 #87

Because the people like those in this thread... ellisonz Dec 2011 #103

There are good arguments and bad arguments (aka pollution) on both sides. aikoaiko Dec 2011 #107

I don't disagree. ellisonz Dec 2011 #108

I'm sure you must mean; "In light of the rapidly shrinking violence in this country" right? DonP Dec 2011 #111

They're pandering...and I think it's shameful. ellisonz Dec 2011 #242

WHO is pandering? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #248

Who's using talking points? ellisonz Dec 2011 #250

Please demonstrate the casual link between gun control and lower crime. PavePusher Dec 2011 #257

Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #261

In other words: There is no evidence that more gun control reduces crime. n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #265

Actually, there's tremendous correlation and causation is obvious. ellisonz Dec 2011 #266

Yet you can't cite to a study that stands up to scrutiny. PavePusher Dec 2011 #274

Sure there is and that's why it's such a popular thing for politicians to support DonP Dec 2011 #284

Circular argument. ellisonz Dec 2011 #289

read the whole page n/t gejohnston Dec 2011 #291

So are you saying both pro and anti gun control arguments are circular... ellisonz Dec 2011 #293

start off with gejohnston Dec 2011 #23

It's a categorization. ellisonz Dec 2011 #31

in the context of gejohnston Dec 2011 #34

It's a bit harder to kill a lot of people real fast with a knife obviously... ellisonz Dec 2011 #37

it is even easier with gejohnston Dec 2011 #41

And ammonium nitrate has been pretty damn well controlled as of late in this country... ellisonz Dec 2011 #43

guilt by association? gejohnston Dec 2011 #45

Gun culture breeds this sort of militancy... ellisonz Dec 2011 #48

don't know much about the gun culture do you? gejohnston Dec 2011 #54

Is there something I missed... ellisonz Dec 2011 #102

Most of it was guns in general gejohnston Dec 2011 #113

"military grade weapons"? Which ones would those be? PavePusher Dec 2011 #141

Don't be dense ellisonz Dec 2011 #202

How about you not be dense? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #206

More rounds, ease of reloading. ellisonz Dec 2011 #211

you know your firearms pretty well? gejohnston Dec 2011 #251

Nice act. ellisonz Dec 2011 #252

A light fisking: PavePusher Dec 2011 #254

Hmmm, no rebuttal? PavePusher Dec 2011 #343

Didn't bother. ellisonz Dec 2011 #344

Coherency and relevancy would help your cause. PavePusher Dec 2011 #345

Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #346

since these .50 BMG gejohnston Dec 2011 #348

Law enforcement. ellisonz Dec 2011 #350

I stand corrected gejohnston Dec 2011 #352

They're still rare. ellisonz Dec 2011 #354

they were? gejohnston Dec 2011 #355

No. But a substantial portion of them do... ellisonz Dec 2011 #357

Really? Then name one of those Texas or Arizona stores that provide friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #360

No response. Why am I not the least bit surprised? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #376

Can you prove that? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #362

They need them because urban intellectuals like yourself MicaelS Dec 2011 #196

That sounds like the logic of... ellisonz Dec 2011 #201

Arguably, I need weapons We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #207

And using that logic... "Do you know Michael Bloomberg's background? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #49

No it really hasnt. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #190

You bought ammonium nitrate for a purpose other than agriculture? ellisonz Dec 2011 #204

Purpose does not matter We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #208

Ehhh.... ellisonz Dec 2011 #216

If they're not implemented, they don't exist We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #218

it has been done gejohnston Dec 2011 #123

Box cutters. nt Remmah2 Dec 2011 #197

I don't which dictionary you're using... Euromutt Dec 2011 #66

Merriam-Webster. ellisonz Dec 2011 #68

Nice to know. It's still wrong. Euromutt Dec 2011 #71

Legal definitions are not available in Merriam-Webster pipoman Dec 2011 #78

Give me an argument for why you shouldn't have one of those then... ellisonz Dec 2011 #101

Except actual statistics show pipoman Dec 2011 #72

Logically, greater regulation would produce less destructive violent crime. ellisonz Dec 2011 #100

Your logic is wrong. Greater regulation increases the violence level. GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #119

What happens when someone's mini-arsenal... ellisonz Dec 2011 #121

I will determine my needs, not you. GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #126

No, the government has the power to determine that and should... ellisonz Dec 2011 #135

We who are pro-RKBA control most of the government. GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #136

NO, sorry, but once again you're wrong We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #191

Only if we let them. PavePusher Dec 2011 #255

Apparently not the victims of gun violence... ellisonz Dec 2011 #256

I will not allow myself to be restricted when I have not commited a crime or harmed anyone. PavePusher Dec 2011 #260

No, it isnt...but it IS equal. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #303

"the victim has no right to direct his frustration and anger" ellisonz Dec 2011 #322

If you need to see it that way We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #327

So, some thug one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #310

No compex proxies or numbers juggling pipoman Dec 2011 #137

That's just sociological categorization. ellisonz Dec 2011 #143

"More guns also means more irresponsible owners." PavePusher Dec 2011 #262

I'll try specifics for $500, Alex.... PavePusher Dec 2011 #82

Of all the bad definitions you could have picked, ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #264

To clarify, you should define an "assault weapon'... SteveW Dec 2011 #152

Jeeez...really? pipoman Dec 2011 #70

Gun control... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2011 #96

Gun control in the US is weaker than... DanTex Dec 2011 #98

First off... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2011 #105

What is descriptive and enlightening is the fact that the US has by far the highest gun homicide... DanTex Dec 2011 #110

I entirely forgot... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2011 #112

because there is no demand gejohnston Dec 2011 #139

"All economies are demand driven" DanTex Dec 2011 #142

I don't disagree for the most part. gejohnston Dec 2011 #163

I'm tempted to challenge this... Marengo Dec 2011 #377

I was there 1986-89 gejohnston Dec 2011 #378

Mainland Japan... Marengo Dec 2011 #379

Hilarious URL! DissedByBush Dec 2011 #128

The Brady campaign is GOP-founded, GOP-led... SteveW Dec 2011 #153

Simplistic ad hominem. ellisonz Dec 2011 #155

Just pointing out your strident, proven hypocrisy... SteveW Dec 2011 #160

Nonsense pipoman Dec 2011 #69

One can believe man things and still be horribly wrong. ellisonz Dec 2011 #144

So why are the lives of policemen more important than crime victims? Remmah2 Dec 2011 #305

Many statists... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #311

You take a poor approach to the "problem"... SteveW Dec 2011 #145

This very may well have been reported to the ATF. ellisonz Dec 2011 #148

I doubt they were. Bloomberg's "stings" rarely, if ever, result in prosecutable cases. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #154

But you don't know, do you? SteveW Dec 2011 #161

Ha... ellisonz Dec 2011 #4

not a rush to judgement gejohnston Dec 2011 #5

That's not the way I see it... ellisonz Dec 2011 #7

like gejohnston Dec 2011 #9

The ATF clearly is failing... ellisonz Dec 2011 #11

mass shootings like that are rare gejohnston Dec 2011 #14

Tell that to the victims and their families, that "rare" is acceptable... ellisonz Dec 2011 #15

Lovejoying the thread, are we? "If it saves only one life..." friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #21

I wish you would... ellisonz Dec 2011 #33

umm gejohnston Dec 2011 #36

Which just goes to show current laws aren't effective at stopping many people... ellisonz Dec 2011 #39

and you think gejohnston Dec 2011 #44

Communist revolution is Amy Goodman? 1917? Bolsheviks? Ring a bell? ellisonz Dec 2011 #47

That's as much as admitting that gun laws don't drive the crime rate. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #50

You keep changing the subject. ellisonz Dec 2011 #53

Like recent spree killings in Italy, Belgium and Norway? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #57

And Norway is horrified... ellisonz Dec 2011 #59

Now you claim that availability of grenades (illegal) equals availability of guns (legal). PavePusher Dec 2011 #85

I claimed no such thing... ellisonz Dec 2011 #133

I don't know personally any victims of gun violence DissedByBush Dec 2011 #130

By man with a mentally unstable man with a criminal record... ellisonz Dec 2011 #132

Trying to shift the blame to someone who had no legal or moral responsibility. PavePusher Dec 2011 #140

Nice, personal attack. ellisonz Dec 2011 #180

Personal attack? I've simply identified your tactic. PavePusher Dec 2011 #192

Ha... ellisonz Dec 2011 #203

Well then tell us what, to you, is "common sense gun control" oneshooter Dec 2011 #210

Sure. ellisonz Dec 2011 #213

Those are more than a little vague- care to elaborate about "regular inspection", for instance? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #217

Not really... ellisonz Dec 2011 #219

Really? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #224

Do you drive? ellisonz Dec 2011 #279

Yep sure do. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #304

It's not up to you to decide whether a post is germane to a subject. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #277

Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #278

That is a non answer, typical of those who know not of what they speak of. oneshooter Dec 2011 #239

The details can be worked out... ellisonz Dec 2011 #241

And here we are back at the beginning We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #243

First we pass it, then we "work out the details". PavePusher Dec 2011 #268

You just did the full verbal pretzel. ellisonz Dec 2011 #269

So you want changes, but you have no idea WHAT changes you want. oneshooter Dec 2011 #300

"No matter what the cost." ellisonz Dec 2011 #317

What cost? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #328

What if you were compensated? ellisonz Dec 2011 #329

For starters... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #330

Frankly... ellisonz Dec 2011 #331

It would be... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #332

You don't really seem to understand... ellisonz Dec 2011 #333

Never said I didnt have them. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #334

Most hospitals comply... ellisonz Dec 2011 #335

Most PEOPLE comply We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #336

They'll just notify law enforcement and have the hospital security hold you until then. ellisonz Dec 2011 #337

Go ask a nurse? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #363

How do you feel about killing her parents? DissedByBush Dec 2011 #176

Or she could have been shot... ellisonz Dec 2011 #179

It was a split second decision DissedByBush Dec 2011 #282

Oh please... ellisonz Dec 2011 #290

But he did do it DissedByBush Dec 2011 #313

Who knows? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #209

"End discussion?" Check-mated again. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #162

you are changing the subject gejohnston Dec 2011 #56

You have misconstrued the purpose of laws. PavePusher Dec 2011 #84

Shall I list the then-current gun laws violated in Columbine? n/t DissedByBush Dec 2011 #129

Which just demonstrates how the system failed... ellisonz Dec 2011 #134

Yes, enforcement of current laws failed DissedByBush Dec 2011 #175

Better laws. ellisonz Dec 2011 #182

That doesn't answer the question. How would you ensure your "better" laws get enforced? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #222

Better laws? DissedByBush Dec 2011 #281

apples and oranges gejohnston Dec 2011 #28

large part gejohnston Dec 2011 #38

You're cynical... ellisonz Dec 2011 #40

Ah, your "intellectual" side is showing now DonP Dec 2011 #61

Since when did Democrats think "intellectual" was bad? ellisonz Dec 2011 #62

That was sarcasm, for the irony impaired DonP Dec 2011 #64

It wasn't her commentary - it is the sheer arrogance of those caught on tape. ellisonz Dec 2011 #65

Access to defensive tools is both an individual Right and a human Right. PavePusher Dec 2011 #86

I wonder how that quote would have sounded otherwise DissedByBush Dec 2011 #177

You couldn't be wrong... ellisonz Dec 2011 #178

There is a reason businesses don't want their people resisting DissedByBush Dec 2011 #283

I have not seen those movies gejohnston Dec 2011 #285

Correct. ellisonz Dec 2011 #288

you did not read closely gejohnston Dec 2011 #294

You're right. I'm not rereading this thread closely. ellisonz Dec 2011 #295

But the "failed system" has once again had a reduction in violent crime. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #296

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #297

"Gun control and and better policing" The first of which you claimed was a "failed system"? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #298

Yes, it's still failing. ellisonz Dec 2011 #299

Indeed, it has failed to prevent more people from buying more guns. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #339

Don't put words in my mouth. n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #340

You're talking about what *you* see as "civic responsibility". friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #341

I think we'll start seeing a flat line and it certainly won't approach European levels. ellisonz Dec 2011 #342

Is there some Department of Scientific Disarmament Instruction where we might find these? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #347

Volokh, a couple rogue sociologists, and the NRA isn't propaganda? ellisonz Dec 2011 #356

rogue sociologists? gejohnston Dec 2011 #358

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #359

I've yet to quote the NRA or Eugene Volokh in my responses to you... friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #361

could be a lot of things gejohnston Dec 2011 #349

Yes. ellisonz Dec 2011 #351

I have, gejohnston Dec 2011 #353

What do you tell the victims of drunk drivers? Obviously our alcohol licensing laws are inadequate hack89 Dec 2011 #91

I support strong enforcement of our current laws. ellisonz Dec 2011 #116

But you would not restrict access to alcohol hack89 Dec 2011 #127

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #200

Would you consider Prohibition to reduce alcohol related deaths? hack89 Dec 2011 #227

I'd consider sensible legislation - I'm not a Prohibitionist. ellisonz Dec 2011 #228

Interesting.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #230

They just enable it to be more destructive... ellisonz Dec 2011 #232

You're wrong on both. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #234

I think the present gun laws are adequate hack89 Dec 2011 #246

Both and. ellisonz Dec 2011 #249

So what specific laws do you want? nt hack89 Dec 2011 #258

Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #259

I see lots of restrictions on law abiding citizens hack89 Dec 2011 #263

How does a legal gun become an illegal gun? ellisonz Dec 2011 #267

You are approaching this from the wrong direction. PavePusher Dec 2011 #270

That's straight denialism. ellisonz Dec 2011 #271

No, it's word salad from you. PavePusher Dec 2011 #273

We stop it by focusing on criminals. hack89 Dec 2011 #272

The problem with your mindset vis-a-vis gun is that MicaelS Dec 2011 #195

Are you ready to ban gasoline and matches? GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #115

That is one desperate argument... ellisonz Dec 2011 #183

Actually only 51. And that is less than one in a million. That's rare. GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #189

Really? ellisonz Dec 2011 #205

My guns aren't illegal and are not a problem. GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #214

There are many people who don't. ellisonz Dec 2011 #215

The two are not the same thing We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #220

Prevention. ellisonz Dec 2011 #221

How does... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #226

Oh my... ellisonz Dec 2011 #229

From where... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #231

Do you send your child to school? ellisonz Dec 2011 #233

Yes i do We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #235

The school of life. ellisonz Dec 2011 #236

Wrong again. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #237

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #238

Sigh.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #240

It would be my guess that you would not approve of my 13yr olds oneshooter Dec 2011 #244

No. ellisonz Dec 2011 #245

depends on the hunting regulation gejohnston Dec 2011 #253

Can you not read, or perhaps fail to understand what you read. oneshooter Dec 2011 #275

In Hawaii they tend to use bows and a knife... ellisonz Dec 2011 #276

so does Ted Nugent gejohnston Dec 2011 #286

Good. ellisonz Dec 2011 #287

I repeat, I do not watch viet era movies. I was there. oneshooter Dec 2011 #301

Good. ellisonz Dec 2011 #318

Who said it had anything to do with hunting? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #306

The ATF clearly is failing DissedByBush Dec 2011 #315

"If they're willing to sell to someone like that they're willing to make an illegal deal." PavePusher Dec 2011 #83

Jurisdictional issues. ellisonz Dec 2011 #117

They couldn't have been. PavePusher Dec 2011 #120

Background check? Remmah2 Dec 2011 #193

They are claiming a "fail" rate of 62%... Straw Man Dec 2011 #3

I think the answer to your specific questions is "so what?" Euromutt Dec 2011 #67

Ok, I'll jump in and respond... aikoaiko Dec 2011 #74

See this is a real response.... ellisonz Dec 2011 #104

I get your point. aikoaiko Dec 2011 #106

Thank you. ellisonz Dec 2011 #109

Just read a similar example of faith-promoting rumor in GD: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #97

I wonder if Bloomberg's tactics could be considered stalking? nt Remmah2 Dec 2011 #194

It's simple: Private gun sales are essentially unregulated. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #338