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Atypical Liberal

(5,412 posts)
41. Just goes to show gun control is a lost cause.
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 04:09 PM
Dec 2011
Do you think this is a healthy thing for democracy?

I think it's a healthy thing for democracy, but most importantly a healthy thing for freedom. Since ancient times arms have been the province of the free. In ancient Rome and Britain bearing arms was a mark of a free man.

A man with a weapon can resist oppression much more easily than a man without one. So an armed society is definitely a good thing.

Do you think people are right to be afraid?
What are they afraid of that is spurring this panic?

Firstly, we need to define what people are supposedly afraid of.

I think more than anything people are afraid of more gun control. Especially if President Obama wins a second term in which he then has nothing to lose anymore and can thus enact unpopular legislation without fear of reprisal for himself at the ballot box. Are they right to be afraid? Well, President Obama does not have a good track record on the second amendment, and he did campaign on re-instating the Assault Weapons Ban. He has been very friendly to second amendment rights so far, but I believe this is because of political expediency not because of a change of heart.

But I don't think fear is really driving sales. I think people just like guns and shooting. I probably own close to 20 firearms. Only one of them did I buy out of fear - fear of civil unrest. All the rest I bought simply because I enjoy hunting and shooting.

In short, nearly all of my firearms were given to me or purchased by me for pleasure. Hunting and shooting is fun!

Do you think everyone should be trained to possess and operate a firearm?

Yes. Kind of like I think everyone ought to know how to drive a stick-shift. You never know when that skill set might come in handy. Personally I think school children should be taught firearm safety in grade school. Even if it does not include any actual safe handling or shooting safety, a program like Eddie Eagle that teaches kids to don't touch, walk away, and tell an adult is crucial in a society where children are likely to come across firearms, either at home or in the home of a friend.

Do you think these due diligence for ensuring that legal firearms purchases are not being diverted for criminal purpose?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. If you are asking do I think these purchases are straw purchases, I'm sure some are. It is trivial to walk into a gun store and lie on the form and simply say you are buying the gun for yourself, and then sell it to someone else privately the next day.

But I don't think straw buying is really that big of an issue. Why? Because if a criminal is willing to pay above retail to buy a firearm (the price of the gun, plus a cut to the straw buyer), and risk breaking the law, why not just open your local Penny Saver or go online to gunbroker.com and find a local private seller of a firearm and buy it legally, cash on the barrel head, no questions asked?

There's really no reason to buy through a straw buyer, unless you just have to have a brand-new firearm. Somehow I doubt this is a big priority for most criminals looking to buy a firearm. Frankly I doubt most criminals are going to buy firearms at market prices anyway. They are going to buy stolen goods on the black market.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I just picked up my Christmas present today michreject Dec 2011 #1
Congrats, burf Dec 2011 #5
I currently have 13 1911's michreject Dec 2011 #30
Of all the pistols I've owned (close to 100) the 1911 ileus Dec 2011 #35
Get the Ruger Pigheaded Dec 2011 #46
I'm looking at the Rock Island 1911 rl6214 Dec 2011 #71
Still looking to get my first 1911 rl6214 Dec 2011 #70
I have a couple 1911's one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #80
Did you have to knock her down to get it from her? Kennah Dec 2011 #15
She gave it up willingly michreject Dec 2011 #29
let's see gejohnston Dec 2011 #2
If things are so great because the crime rate is down as a result of guns... ellisonz Dec 2011 #7
I never said the crime drop had anything to do with guns gejohnston Dec 2011 #8
Again this is the problem with not using a multivariate analysis. ellisonz Dec 2011 #9
You read more into my post than I meant gejohnston Dec 2011 #11
Uh oh... You just said "multivariate analysis" DanTex Dec 2011 #31
you have us confused with Europe gejohnston Dec 2011 #49
Did you dress her up like that? n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #72
I know right... ellisonz Dec 2011 #50
If you dislike it so much We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #51
You've got your talking points mixed up. DanTex Dec 2011 #62
problem is that gejohnston Dec 2011 #52
Funny isnt it? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #53
... ellisonz Dec 2011 #54
I stand by what I said gejohnston Dec 2011 #55
Thanks for the link. Straw Man Dec 2011 #64
Nice try. ellisonz Dec 2011 #66
"Nice try"? I'm simply quoting the article. Straw Man Dec 2011 #68
Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #69
The fact that you haven't seen the studies doesn't mean they don't exist. DanTex Dec 2011 #65
is it gejohnston Dec 2011 #67
ironic thing is gejohnston Dec 2011 #74
and this is the problem with trying to use multivariate analysis to determine causation. aikoaiko Dec 2011 #76
Sociologists don't just run statistical analysises... ellisonz Dec 2011 #77
true, but they dont imply causation as you did. aikoaiko Dec 2011 #78
That would be your opinion. n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #79
"All purchasers under the age of 25 must undergo psychological evaluation by the police." Simo 1939_1940 Dec 2011 #18
It's a response to school shootings. ellisonz Dec 2011 #20
So the police should do psych evaluations? Straw Man Dec 2011 #23
Yes, I want a bureacracy... ellisonz Dec 2011 #24
Oh, no... Straw Man Dec 2011 #25
Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #26
No, not really. Straw Man Dec 2011 #27
Knifes vs. guns - you know what they say - don't bring a knife to a gun fight... ellisonz Dec 2011 #28
You entirely missed several points. Straw Man Dec 2011 #40
Oy Vey ellisonz Dec 2011 #57
What on earth are you talking about? Straw Man Dec 2011 #60
Ha. ellisonz Dec 2011 #63
Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #33
"Social Security has a functioning and efficient bureaucracy" Pigheaded Dec 2011 #48
So you're saying there's fraud? ellisonz Dec 2011 #56
There are more examples from that particular source. Here's one friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #61
All the more reason to question that procedure. SteveW Dec 2011 #44
An excellent substitute for the psych evals already exists. GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #58
"will usually get into trouble with the police and get convicted early in life." ellisonz Dec 2011 #59
Not at all presumptious. GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #75
I shoot for recreation - great family activity hack89 Dec 2011 #32
I easily have another 20 or 30 guns on my "must have" list. ileus Dec 2011 #36
Straw man, there... SteveW Dec 2011 #43
Gosh, it can't possibly be "a healthy thing for democracy".... PavePusher Dec 2011 #3
Just tonight finished my sons rifle. Loving Wife is wrapping it now. oneshooter Dec 2011 #4
Helps the economy, for starters. Straw Man Dec 2011 #6
The daughter is getting the .38 Snubbie she used at our last range session for Christmas DonP Dec 2011 #10
"Fear, in a word," he said. BULLSHIT rl6214 Dec 2011 #12
He's the manager of the sportings good store... ellisonz Dec 2011 #14
Replies to your questions... spin Dec 2011 #13
Thanks for stating my sentiments on every point for me, spin. Simo 1939_1940 Dec 2011 #21
No problem. Thanks for your support. (n/t) spin Dec 2011 #37
Absent violent crime, this Second Great Depression isn't good for democracy Kennah Dec 2011 #16
Have you listened to teabagger rhetoric? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #17
I sure as hell don't want to see them as the only ones armed. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #22
One of those clowns questioned me at a OWS rally... SteveW Dec 2011 #45
LOL. beevul Dec 2011 #19
Answers DissedByBush Dec 2011 #34
Buy a Snuggie or buy a rifle? Remmah2 Dec 2011 #38
Why not both? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #39
And if the Zombies(tm) come on a cold day... PavePusher Dec 2011 #73
Just goes to show gun control is a lost cause. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #41
The big uptick in Democratic/Democratic-leaning is interesting... SteveW Dec 2011 #42
Addition to my last post... SteveW Dec 2011 #47
28 December 1911 one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #81
Interesting! Union Scribe Dec 2011 #82
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