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Gun Control & RKBA

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xxenderwigginxx

(146 posts)
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:50 AM Jul 2012

10 Tips for gun control advocates. [View all]

Last edited Tue Aug 7, 2012, 10:52 PM - Edit history (2)

#1 The gun show loophole, as you wish to define it, does not exist. Every law that applies outside gun shows applies inside the doors. Federal Firearms Licensees (a.k.a., gun dealers or FFLs) at a gun show must fill out their ATF Form 4473s and do their FBI background (NICS) checks just as if they were at their shops (or their homes for that matter). Only private sales do not have these restriction at gun shows, they also do not have them outside of gun shows.

#2 Internet gun sales are subject to the same regulations and background checks as purchases from a gun shop. If you purchase a gun online, it has to be shipped to a Federal Firearms License (FFL) dealer, and you must pass the same legal checks to pick it up.

#3 You are constantly mis-defining the word Regulated as it appears in the 2A. As used by the writers of the 2nd it is defined : "properly functioning , orderly, and quite predictable, as in, to regulate a clock." It has nothing to do with control, it just meant that the people should train with their weapons. You're trying to apply the word "regulation" as we use it now to "regulate" as the writers used it then. Words change, or have multiple meanings. The word "regulate" wasn't used as you are defining it until 1828. See: Websters Dictionary 1806 & 1828, & Dictionary of Word Origins by John Ayto. Of course, I guess its possible that when your physician advises you to maintain a well regulated colon, he thinks you should give control of your body functions to the fed.

#4 Claiming that the SCOTUS has misinterpreted the 2A for 200 years is not likely to undo the precedent they have set. (and it just makes you look silly)

#5 Be careful how you go about trying to undo the 2A, the same tyrannical tactics would eventually be used on the rest of the Bill of Rights.

#6 Privately owned "Assault Rifles" are not assault rifles and are not full-auto, they are the exact same as the average hunting rifle and fire 1 round per 1 pull of the trigger. There are much more dangerous guns. Focusing on the ones that "look scary" demonstrates that you know nothing about firearms and causes the average gun owner to ignore you. (on a side-note, that "high capacity" mag may hold 100 rounds; but the shooter would have to pull the trigger 100 times, with no jams, and have 100% accuracy 100 times for that to matter)

#7 Neither the Constitution or the Bill of Rights ever granted citizens the right to own guns. It is NOT something granted to us by the government. It was a right that was presumed to exist. The BoR simply stated that the government could not infringe upon that independently existing right.

#8 The founders did not protect our right to keep and bear arms for the sake of hobbyists and hunters. Its primary function is as a check against the threat of tyranny. To which most gun control advocates will promptly call you a paranoid, red dawn, crazy. Though I see no threat of such a problem presently, to say that our government could never turn on its citizens points out that you are ignorant of human nature and world history. To the other half who will say "like you would have any chance against the U.S. military if the fed wanted to go dictator", well much the same was said about the Colonies chances against the British empire, and I don't know about you, but I will take a small chance of avoiding a police state over NO chance.

#9 There's a reason perfectly sane law abiding citizens enjoy going to the range. Guns are fun. No, seriously.

#10 The American public strongly support the 2nd Amendment. Even on DU support for gun rights is at 70%. To have any hope of accomplishing your goal of more regulation or gun bans you will have no choice but to convince the average gun owner to support it. Calling 2A advocates "gun nuts" "redneck" "baby killer" psychopath" etc is unlikely to aid you in this.

218 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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10 Tips for gun control advocates. [View all] xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 OP
Oh good, another 2A supporter telling us that we're idiots. Scuba Jul 2012 #1
According to the cdc xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #2
You're bad at math too. Scuba Jul 2012 #8
80 million gun owners xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #9
once you remove the suicides gejohnston Jul 2012 #10
and a good point to make about suicides... alabama_for_obama Jul 2012 #37
based on Australian and Canadian experience gejohnston Jul 2012 #53
I see alcohol and drug abuse as slow suicide. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #111
true gejohnston Jul 2012 #115
and... kenfrequed Jul 2012 #139
Only "aprox 85 guns a day are fired resulting in a death"? Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #173
you are talking to the wrong people gejohnston Aug 2012 #174
I don't care what a mosquito reads if it carries death. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #175
+1000 ellisonz Aug 2012 #198
What?? Are you even reading before you respond? xxenderwigginxx Aug 2012 #200
How many people die per day because of their cars? Right Hand of Dog Aug 2012 #177
chicks dig Glocks gejohnston Aug 2012 #178
85 vs 230,000,000 xxenderwigginxx Aug 2012 #179
You consider 85 gun killing incidents in America every day statistically insignificant. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #180
that is counting suicides gejohnston Aug 2012 #182
LOL Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #183
If I were you, I wouldn't either gejohnston Aug 2012 #184
The only fact that really counts is success rate. Guns win hands down when available. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #185
we went through this before, gejohnston Aug 2012 #186
If 85 cars a day crashed resulting in people dying, we'd do something about it DainBramaged Aug 2012 #190
apples and oranges gejohnston Aug 2012 #191
not idiots gejohnston Jul 2012 #6
How would you make gun ownership more "neat and orderly?" (n/t) spin Jul 2012 #20
Ignorant 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #47
IBTL, but thanks for the tutorial. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #3
This is posted in the RKBA forum, where such threads belong...should not be locked ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #12
We have been asked to confine ourselves here sarisataka Jul 2012 #45
Every google dump of news articles containing shootings the anti-gun zealots post is flamebait rl6214 Jul 2012 #118
Yeah, right. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #157
#6 is factually incorrect. OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #4
good point. xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #5
The M1Garand is a semi-auto Battle Rifle. oneshooter Jul 2012 #160
True, but some context is warranted. xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #162
yawn SecularMotion Jul 2012 #7
Bored by the facts are you? rl6214 Jul 2012 #119
Facts often ARE boreing. HALO141 Jul 2012 #129
A question about a comment you made. Kaleva Jul 2012 #11
I think I understand your point xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #13
Okay. Thanks for the clarification! Kaleva Jul 2012 #16
The last one I saw for sale xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #21
You should check out the CMP, Civilian Marksmanship program rl6214 Jul 2012 #120
Nice xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #127
No you won't. But they will ship it direct to your door! oneshooter Jul 2012 #161
I have a C&R Lic so they did ship to my door. rl6214 Jul 2012 #166
that would depend on how close you were to one another, alabama_for_obama Jul 2012 #41
You would have on advantage Mec9000 Jul 2012 #58
10 more bongbong Jul 2012 #14
Do you have any particular facts armueller2001 Jul 2012 #17
PROVE IT! bongbong Jul 2012 #23
The sky is blue n/t sarisataka Jul 2012 #46
Perhaps. If so please disprove these "Big Lies." (n/t) spin Jul 2012 #19
PROVE IT! bongbong Jul 2012 #22
Are you copying and pasting the same replies to every thread? nt Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #24
No bongbong Jul 2012 #26
Just most of them? ErikO Jul 2012 #35
Teh Bells Tolls bongbong Jul 2012 #69
Do you dispute the fact that there is a group of liberal gun owners who have formed a club? rl6214 Jul 2012 #122
Which points are you referring to as "Big Lies"? xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #25
HILARIOUS! bongbong Jul 2012 #27
Which parts are opinion? Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #33
Sense & Dense bongbong Jul 2012 #70
You haven't yet contributed anything to xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #71
The NRA Talking Point Express bongbong Jul 2012 #72
Well Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #73
It should be noted xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #75
PROVE IT! bongbong Jul 2012 #78
I already posted a link to the poll nt Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #80
Where bongbong Jul 2012 #86
Was in the discussion below Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #89
Polls bongbong Jul 2012 #112
Read the entire site, not just the first graph nt Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #113
As usual every one of your posts is just rl6214 Jul 2012 #123
Crzay bongbong Jul 2012 #145
I wonder how it would be taken if every anti gun post was answered with ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #163
Apparently one CAN be that dense. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #125
LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #143
LOL cleanhippie Jul 2012 #155
It is your job to disprove those claims. spin Jul 2012 #106
Oh, OK bongbong Jul 2012 #108
You would definitely have a hard time proving #9 to me ... spin Jul 2012 #135
And yet you are completely ineffective at promoting more gun restrictions. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #43
LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #67
If one smells bullshit everywhere they turn... cleanhippie Jul 2012 #124
Not everywhere bongbong Jul 2012 #144
We both know it applies to you. cleanhippie Jul 2012 #156
The enemy gate... Callisto32 Jul 2012 #15
HaHa xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #18
The book makes me cry becuase it is so good. Callisto32 Jul 2012 #130
I have the same concerns for the movie xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #131
Interesting username auburngrad82 Jul 2012 #28
Its a sci-fi fiction. xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #32
Aha, I see a Commissar of Political Purity has arrived... Marengo Aug 2012 #187
Online Gun Sales electedface Jul 2012 #29
Then Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #34
That video is so much bullshit it makes me cramp Chuuku Davis Jul 2012 #38
this person has posted this same nonsense at least 3 times today. alabama_for_obama Jul 2012 #42
Why do you feel it is appropriate to promote lies, distortions and untruths on D.U.? PavePusher Jul 2012 #116
Why do gun threads keep coming up Chuuku Davis Jul 2012 #30
It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. nt Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #36
Because it is an entertaining debate ... spin Jul 2012 #114
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #31
Life is best lived as a continuing education ... spin Jul 2012 #117
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #158
Breaking news... xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #159
It would appear that you actually know have little knowledge about the gun culture ... spin Jul 2012 #165
Why do newbes always come in here with right wing gun talking points like it's something brilliant? Hoyt Jul 2012 #39
Interesting opinion Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #40
Do you care to "prove" that crud is true? Hoyt Jul 2012 #49
Which point? Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #50
#s 3 through 10. #1 and 2 have been addressed. Hoyt Jul 2012 #51
Did I miss any? Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #55
Why don't you show us where Declaration of Independence addressed guns? Hoyt Jul 2012 #57
Not spin, I said it shows their intent and here you go Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #59
So not one word about guns in the Declaration of Independence. Hoyt Jul 2012 #61
I keep mine under my pillow xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #62
Join the gun culture club. Most here aren't that honest about the right wing gun stuff they post. Hoyt Jul 2012 #64
Apparently sarcasm is lost on you as well xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #65
As is what "gun culture" really means. rl6214 Jul 2012 #126
I said it shows intent Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #63
That shows "intent" for 2nd Amendment? Then, the 2nd Amendment isn't about bearing arms and Hoyt Jul 2012 #66
I've said many times Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #68
Then fine, hide a few guns at home since that is the intent of the 2nd Amendment. Hoyt Jul 2012 #74
Where in the 2nd amendment Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #77
Opinions bongbong Jul 2012 #81
Nope Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #83
Entire discussion bongbong Jul 2012 #85
Really? xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #87
Yeah bongbong Jul 2012 #93
I'm starting to think you really don't have anything to add to the discussion nt Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #95
has no intention of adding anything gejohnston Jul 2012 #100
Para bongbong Jul 2012 #107
LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #105
No he/she really doesn't rl6214 Jul 2012 #128
Now you're trying to dodge the issue because you got called out on it Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #90
Dodge bongbong Jul 2012 #91
That's the dodge Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #94
LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #99
I've gone out of my way to backup my points Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #101
Backup? bongbong Jul 2012 #103
Well Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #104
Actually, that is a dubious interpretation. kenfrequed Jul 2012 #168
Autographs bongbong Jul 2012 #76
Was waiting for that one :-) Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #79
LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #84
From an examination of the rights at the time Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #88
search bongbong Jul 2012 #110
That's a funny thought -- these guys do seem to think they are one of the Founding Fathers. Hoyt Jul 2012 #82
Also Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #92
I'm responding to your response to my post #76. bongbong Jul 2012 #97
They're all cited, you're a troll friend nt Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #98
LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #102
Don't you love it? sarisataka Jul 2012 #121
The fact that you even asked that question xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #60
so point #1, the infamous "gun show loophole" alabama_for_obama Jul 2012 #44
People sell guns at gun shows without background checks. Happens all the time. Hoyt Jul 2012 #48
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #52
So, I guess 0.8% is OK for violent crimes? How about all the "non-violent' crimes and intimidation Hoyt Jul 2012 #54
I don't think its reasonable to assume that if those .8% of criminals were unable xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #56
#11 gejohnston Jul 2012 #96
Excellent words!!!!!!! JoeInNy Jul 2012 #109
It's unbelievable RegieRocker Jul 2012 #136
You can lead a gun-grabber to read but you can't make them think. nt jody Jul 2012 #132
Read post 136 RegieRocker Jul 2012 #137
ROFL because you don't know me! jody Jul 2012 #140
I was in agreement with you! RegieRocker Jul 2012 #147
Can we hit ignore for someone with 52 posts? Sancho Jul 2012 #133
You know what i like? xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #134
You know as much about Dr. Peeper as you know about 2a. RegieRocker Jul 2012 #138
Do you really believe your post quoted below is an example of history and logic? jody Jul 2012 #142
WTF does health coverage have to do with this problem. RegieRocker Jul 2012 #146
I think my dr pepper statement xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #148
Ok RegieRocker Jul 2012 #150
Please don't prove yourself at 10, 2, and 4.... Sancho Jul 2012 #154
Someone has an awfully damn high opinion of himself. Callisto32 Jul 2012 #164
This is ridiculous flamebait kenfrequed Jul 2012 #141
I am seeing a lot of words without really saying anything useful xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #149
Working in inverse order. kenfrequed Jul 2012 #167
I'm not seeing your case TheKentuckian Aug 2012 #199
I gave it all the attentiont it decidedly deserved and probably a bit more. kenfrequed Aug 2012 #210
My intent in point #10 is to convey something xxenderwigginxx Aug 2012 #212
And you accomplished this by... kenfrequed Aug 2012 #218
another new poster here to dispense NRA-funded pearls of wisdom villager Jul 2012 #151
Sighhhh...You know one does not have to be an NRA member xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #152
...to buy into their honed, corporate-lobbying propaganda? villager Aug 2012 #170
As opposed to fear-mongering directed towards gun owners, which has gained little traction. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #171
Is there anything decent left in you that gets tired of the blood-soaked apologetics? villager Aug 2012 #188
An assessment of political reality has become a "blood-soaked" apologia? How pitiful. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #194
well, you've certainly managed to answer the question in a definitive way. villager Aug 2012 #195
you have that confused with Brady gejohnston Aug 2012 #172
Also...at some point you were a newbie xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #153
"NRA-funded" If you've got any evidence, now would be a good time to show it.. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #169
...and as is usual with such claims, no evidence was provided. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #176
Well said Ya Basta Aug 2012 #181
Rubbish DainBramaged Aug 2012 #189
so Wyoming is the same as New York gejohnston Aug 2012 #192
You weren't supposed to notice that... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #193
You can see in this same article xxenderwigginxx Aug 2012 #196
Meh DainBramaged Aug 2012 #197
Anybody who publicy uses the phrase "right to keep and bare arms" has no credibility in my book. geckosfeet Aug 2012 #201
so are you saying there is no right to gejohnston Aug 2012 #203
Operating as the grammar police seems xxenderwigginxx Aug 2012 #205
Yeah. It's my fault people can't write then expect other people to take them seriously. geckosfeet Aug 2012 #207
As time goes on the general public will become disenchanted with gun owners... Walk away Aug 2012 #202
you are still talking about 30-40 gejohnston Aug 2012 #204
The makeup of the US population is going to change drastically in the next 10 to 20 yrs Walk away Aug 2012 #208
a couple of false assumptions gejohnston Aug 2012 #209
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. xxenderwigginxx Aug 2012 #211
The idea that all, or most, 2A supporters xxenderwigginxx Aug 2012 #213
Keep it up! You'll end up holed up in the "don't tread on me" hills along with... Walk away Aug 2012 #214
plenty of game to shoot.......... gejohnston Aug 2012 #217
One big old tip back at ya for 2A apostles... Pholus Aug 2012 #206
When did I ever discuss xxenderwigginxx Aug 2012 #215
Hey, by your OP we're just trading "tips." Can't you handle one coming back? Pholus Aug 2012 #216
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