It's due to outdated training (Reply #108)

In the discussion thread: NYC: Empire State Shooting: ALL bystanders were shot by police [View all]

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:10 PM

108. It's due to outdated training

When they had revolvers they were taught to start pulling the trigger to take the slack out of the trigger and get the hammer in a position to fire quickly. This training, when they switched over to the semi-auto, led to a large number of negligent discharges. Instead of updating the training, they opted for that horrible trigger.

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215 replies	Author	Time	Post
NYC: Empire State Shooting: ALL bystanders were shot by police [View all]	rDigital	Aug 2012	OP
12+ pound trigger pull?!	Simo 1939_1940	Aug 2012	#1
The 12 pound Glock triggers	ManiacJoe	Aug 2012	#2
I think there's the "NY-1" and the "NY-2" trigger	Euromutt	Aug 2012	#101
It's due to outdated training	Reasonable_Argument	Aug 2012	#108
Glocks have a little slack in their triggers as well before the break.	Ashgrey77	Aug 2012	#134
i'm not a gun user, or any manner of expert; but, i agree with your comments.	marasinghe	Aug 2012	#3
There is a certain tendency in these situations	LuvNewcastle	Aug 2012	#5
If all those bystanders had guns, this wouldn't have happened!	Fuddnik	Aug 2012	#4
Surely you can cite to a Citizen hitting nine bystanders in a self-defense shooting.	PavePusher	Aug 2012	#115
"Professional Police Officers" is now an oxymoron...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#6
You can't really blame them	Reasonable_Argument	Aug 2012	#8
No, they are 100% to blame. They should know their firearm's capabilities and limitations...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#9
I understand your anger	Reasonable_Argument	Aug 2012	#10
Go to the range and get fully acclimated to the firearm.	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#11
So you're saying CCW holders who go to the range once a month or more	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#12
Are all CCW holders being paid by tax dollars to protect the public?	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#14
That wasn't in your statement. It's called moving the goalposts. n/t	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#17
Cops are, by definition, police officers. "Police officer" is a profession.	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#18
Significant goalpost movement	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#21
Oy vey. Let me find the crayons...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#22
Crayons not needed.	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#26
Perhaps those 9 victims should ask for a refund from their paid protectors.	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#61
They should certainly be compensated...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#64
CCW holders who go to the range once a month or more...	atreides1	Aug 2012	#177
I agree on both counts	Reasonable_Argument	Aug 2012	#13
Then, most cops shouldn't be in the job to begin with.	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#15
Most of the posters here	Reasonable_Argument	Aug 2012	#16
I am in favor of preservation of the 2nd amendment.	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#19
Well not to get too far afield	Reasonable_Argument	Aug 2012	#20
Effective: close gun show loopholes nationally.	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#23
Three questions for you.	hack89	Aug 2012	#25
1. Make it federal law.	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#30
the commerce clause could prevent number one	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#38
Most gun shows are put on by vendors from multiple states...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#41
And those vendors are required to obey all existing gun laws.	hack89	Aug 2012	#44
1. They can't make it federal law - the Constitution gets in the way	hack89	Aug 2012	#42
And you've forgotten about Virginia Tech, where the killer used "normal sized" clips...	friendly_iconoclast	Aug 2012	#91
Would these restrictions apply to police as well? n/t	PavePusher	Aug 2012	#116
A .45 with a clip	AnJo1	Aug 2012	#168
Your answers are NOT effective. Here is why:	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#50
Got it. You're an absolutist regarding the 2nd amendment...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#51
You ducked the specific reasons I gave.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#56
My answers were as elementary as can be...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#63
You made no attempt to rebut my statements. N/T	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#68
...because they didn't merit rebuttal?	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#69
Like I said, That is why my side is winning the national debate on this issue.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#98
Merit.	Straw Man	Aug 2012	#191
Looks like he's doing this:	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#71
You seem to have cotton in your ears...er..eyes as it were..	pipoman	Aug 2012	#129
Another NRA talking point...	DanTex	Aug 2012	#211
That is not an NRA talking point	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#212
Tell it to the House Judiciary Committee	pipoman	Aug 2012	#213
"I personally find the sport of murdering mammals distasteful,"	rl6214	Aug 2012	#210
It take 3/4 of the states to ratify an amendment.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#32
Good. Let's get started.	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#33
Shouldn't that be "I'll get started"? Let us know how it goes...	friendly_iconoclast	Aug 2012	#92
You do know that	Jenoch	Aug 2012	#180
This post would appear to be in conflict with your post number 19	jbgood1977	Dec 2012	#215
A NYC Detective told me a story	formercia	Aug 2012	#47
I would have just thrown the whole damn gun away NT	Trunk Monkey	Aug 2012	#49
Sounds like he was either A) professional enough to realize his gun wasn't the answer...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#52
A real professional would keep all his equipment in top shape.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#58
He should check EVERY possible aspect of his weapon just as I check every possible aspect...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#65
Do you fly a Cessna or a 757?	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#73
Do you fire a .22 or a Howitzer?	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#75
I was just curious. for the record, I fire a .40. A .22 is too small and a howitzer is too expensive	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#78
In the spirit of disclosure, and because I respet your candor...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#79
You too	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#80
Or too damned lazy to clean his gun NT	Trunk Monkey	Aug 2012	#72
Agree to a point	bakpakr	Aug 2012	#89
I don't think you've really thought out your proposals very well.	PavePusher	Aug 2012	#117
Tend to agree with you a bit but	bakpakr	Aug 2012	#122
I disagree, but I do appreciate your reasoned response without insults or slurs n/t	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#125
Have you ever been in a gun fight?	Trunk Monkey	Aug 2012	#34
Well, pilots are trained to NOT lose their heads during an emergency...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#36
Bet they'd lose their heads if someone was shooting at them while they're trying	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#37
Yes, we are trained to do one thing, first and foremost, in ANY emergency...	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#40
I see your point but I want to ask a couple of questions.	Trunk Monkey	Aug 2012	#48
1) Yes, a choking-smoke-filled cabin.	Cooley Hurd	Aug 2012	#66
Generally speaking, in-flight emergencies	HALO141	Aug 2012	#173
Yes you can. They made a bad decision and should have to stand behind it.	Ashgrey77	Aug 2012	#139
From the videos I've seen,	HALO141	Aug 2012	#174
I wouldn't let ...	holdencaufield	Aug 2012	#7
And these are professionals. Imagine the carnage if some concealed-carry yahoo started shooting.	DanTex	Aug 2012	#24
Please show where a CCWer has mowed down 9 people with missed shots.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#28
He can't.	friendly_iconoclast	Aug 2012	#94
because the average "yahoo" actually goes the range	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#29
LOL. Yeah, the average yahoo gun nut is better trained than the NYPD. Now that was funny!	DanTex	Aug 2012	#31
Please feel free to cite an instance in which a permit holder hit 9 innocent people NT	Trunk Monkey	Aug 2012	#35
There are plenty of instances of permit holders shooting people accidentally (including themselves).	DanTex	Aug 2012	#39
can you find them?	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#43
You mean like this guy?	DanTex	Aug 2012	#45
Here in Texas we have to meet the same standard that the police do.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#55
who said anything about chasing anyone?	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#81
Unfortunately, this is just another case of the ever moving goal posts.	rDigital	Aug 2012	#83
With their fantastic requirements only 1%ers like Donald Trump get carry permits	rDigital	Aug 2012	#76
The cops are better trained on the laws of their city/state	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#46
For a police officer, qualification is an annual or biannual chore.	Glaug-Eldare	Aug 2012	#53
Actually yeah	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#62
What is your knowledge on NYPD's firearms training?	rDigital	Aug 2012	#82
Gun nuts shoot for pleasure	krispos42	Aug 2012	#147
My S&W Model 642 snub nosed .38 caliber revolver has a trigger pull of about 12 pounds. ...	spin	Aug 2012	#93
Can you cite instances of that actually happening?	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#60
Trained professionals?	Straw Man	Aug 2012	#194
Love Your 20/20 Hindsight. (nt)	Paladin	Aug 2012	#27
A black eye for the NYPD.	burnsei sensei	Aug 2012	#54
"The only mass shooting in NYC yesterday was carried out by those hired to protect it."	OneTenthofOnePercent	Aug 2012	#57
Clearly NYC should disarm civilians even more	4th law of robotics	Aug 2012	#59
WTF with the NYT?	BlueNinja	Aug 2012	#67
Every turd in NYC bows to Gloomy-Bloomie, get used to it.	rDigital	Aug 2012	#86
I honestly, cannot fathom, just how incompetent that really is.	virginia mountainman	Aug 2012	#70
Don't worry. Only the police should have guns cause they've been trained and stuff n/t	shadowrider	Aug 2012	#74
At 12 lbs, why don't they issue bows and arrows instead? nt	Xipe Totec	Aug 2012	#77
That's funny you say that because	rDigital	Aug 2012	#87
Interesting to see those who...	sarisataka	Aug 2012	#84
If you're familiar with police firearms training, you'll see that flurry shooting isn't a last	rDigital	Aug 2012	#88
Unfortunately true	sarisataka	Aug 2012	#100
I think we'd do well to step back from the fray for a moment	Glaug-Eldare	Aug 2012	#85
Bloomberg has the NYPD so afraid of guns that the cops don't get trained to use them properly. nt	rDigital	Aug 2012	#90
You are being sarcastic, and it is a good LOL, BUT you are close to the truth I bet...	virginia mountainman	Aug 2012	#95
Perfect example of why regular cops should not be armed.	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#96
This isn't England	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#97
Unfortunately you are right. It isn't England in this regard.	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#104
That's deep, Mr. Tack. (no sarcasm/joking) nt	rDigital	Aug 2012	#110
Better by far this isn't England...	Clames	Aug 2012	#123
Pity you didn't stay to get an education	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#132
No pity. Got a much better one in this country.	Clames	Aug 2012	#141
I don't blame them. Much easier here.	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#146
Typical snide bullshit.	Straw Man	Aug 2012	#195
Still living up to your SN I see.	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#205
Still avoiding addressing the content of my posts, I see.	Straw Man	Aug 2012	#214
If NYC cops would learn	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#99
Right! It's all about the triggers.	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#105
the triggers are because of lousy training	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#106
Are you seriously	Jenoch	Aug 2012	#112
I have seen it. Good movie. Emphasis on "movie"	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#135
but UK and the US are different societies	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#136
Every society is different to a degree.	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#138
I think what we are seeing with Mr. Tack is something in the UK akin...	Clames	Aug 2012	#144
You are out of your mind.	Jenoch	Aug 2012	#137
Why don't you ask some UK cops what it is like?	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#145
Why would asking a UK	Jenoch	Aug 2012	#148
If you think being a cop is about "enforcing laws" then you just don't get it	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#149
Try again.	oneshooter	Aug 2012	#150
Mea culpa. I should have said LAPD	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#157
You've got to be pulling my chain here. Where are the cameras?	Jenoch	Aug 2012	#151
You are absolutely correct. So why do they need guns?	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#158
You may have a point there	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#159
I understand your position and your reaction to my suggestion.	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#160
Here's where you fail	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#162
More alike than different.	Starboard Tack	Aug 2012	#165
Again, you've got to be kidding me.	Jenoch	Aug 2012	#163
The 'beat' cops are the ones that run into trouble.	Jenoch	Aug 2012	#161
"...the average criminal mind....plays by a set of rules..."?????	Jenoch	Aug 2012	#142
We just need better cops.	Union Scribe	Aug 2012	#121
Without a gun and bullets, this wouldn't happen	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#102
A gun never saved anyone?	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#103
live by the gun, die by the gun	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#111
prime example	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#113
I put this into Google Translate	Union Scribe	Aug 2012	#119
Babelfish worked alot better...	OneTenthofOnePercent	Aug 2012	#131
"Guns do not buy freedom"	PavePusher	Aug 2012	#120
this has nothing to do with the USA or the NRA	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#124
Armed self-defense stories are posted regularly in this group.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#152
just statistical noise	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#156
I'm having trouble translating what you say into English	AnJo1	Aug 2012	#166
I don't want to get rid of you, just the #1 biggest lobby NRA	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#167
$35.00X4.5 Million=$157,000,000	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#169
more fuzzy math	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#170
So you're an accountant?	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#171
4.3 million members is just 1.5% of the population of USA.	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#186
23,000 members is just 0.08% of the population of the US	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#188
he is correct-guns are an abomination.	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#190
Bill Crystal agrees with him	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#192
What you fail to address is that there are 80-90 million more gun owners	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#196
Nothing wrong with an audit if there is nothing to hide?	AnJo1	Aug 2012	#200
it's like at the airport	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#202
So your rights trump mine?	AnJo1	Aug 2012	#204
Can you back up your claim that the NRA is "backing" Zimmerman?	AnJo1	Aug 2012	#181
You are moving the goal posts.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#172
however, in reality, this just forgets one major thing	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#175
Say what?? I understand all the words, but the sentences make no sense.	AnJo1	Aug 2012	#182
Except for suicide, you are grossly wrong.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#183
homicide is a very broad term	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#187
not that many	gejohnston	Aug 2012	#189
Take a closer look at my post.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#193
it's like the old saying	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#197
1,981 Murdered by knife in 2007	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#203
No one can speak for "the gun people" since we come in many varieties	AnJo1	Aug 2012	#198
This message was self-deleted by its author	Simo 1939_1940	Aug 2012	#153
I'm with you, brother/sister!	Simo 1939_1940	Aug 2012	#154
Brilliant satire!!!	TPaine7	Aug 2012	#107
Yes...we need Superman...nt	Union Scribe	Aug 2012	#109
Your fucking hero Bloomers walked onto the crime scene shortly after it was secured....	PavePusher	Aug 2012	#118
Some info on NYPD training...	PavePusher	Aug 2012	#114
Training is one factor. Switching from Glocks to double-action/single-action pistols would help.	AnotherMcIntosh	Aug 2012	#126
Not really.	Ashgrey77	Aug 2012	#140
Yes really.	AnotherMcIntosh	Aug 2012	#143
Stock Glock has a 5.5 pound pull.	Ashgrey77	Aug 2012	#155
You're sick	Kolesar	Aug 2012	#127
It's hard to swallow, but it's the truth. nt	rDigital	Aug 2012	#133
HUGE Black Eye for Mayor Bloomberg	Iggy	Aug 2012	#128
A 12# trigger on a police weapon is the dumbest	pipoman	Aug 2012	#130
To be fair...	HALO141	Aug 2012	#164
and to be fair to Mayor Mike-	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#176
"if the grudge holder did not have a gun"	HALO141	Aug 2012	#178
Thankfully NY has laws against tourists bringing their guns in	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#184
Say what?	Straw Man	Aug 2012	#199
get rid of the blue wall of silence for one thing &	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#201
Oh, I get it.	HALO141	Aug 2012	#206
Tourists with guns isn't a problem for other states.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#207
I love Texas and I go there without a gun	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#208
I respect your right to that decision, if not the decision itself.	GreenStormCloud	Aug 2012	#209
Let me get this straight	glacierbay	Aug 2012	#179
outrageous was having a shoot out on 34th street	graham4anything	Aug 2012	#185

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