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Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
43. I do see your point, Chitown Kev
Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:45 PM
Oct 2015

But I think, too, that they do know they are the product of "European systems." I've just read so many quick to point out what happened to their ancestors when they arrived here. I think we all know exactly what system we're talking about but I applaud Orwell for identifying the source.

I just don't think the -isms mean a thing when the solution is that living standards must be "forced up to the same level as our own." As we know better, improved living standards does not save us from the cop who feels a little hankering for intimidation and/or blood.

"But as this might mean temporarily lowering our own standards the subject is systematically avoided by Left and Right alike." Hmm...lowering our own standards, says to me that in order to achieve economic justice, we must lower standards of living. He goes right back to the system in trying to be helpful but at the same time equates equality with lowering of standards.

His argument starts with the evils of the European system then is pretty scary for people when they think their lives will be worse off if we got rid of the system, even temporarily

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I think that this sentence says it all: WIProgressive88 Oct 2015 #1
Agreed, and many socialists have not done so. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #2
I agree with you... Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #3
I can understand why they wouldn't have joined. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #5
but in practice it doesn't seem to have worked just as communism didn't work. JI7 Oct 2015 #4
Well...I think that genuine socialism has failed so far for entirely different reasons. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #6
i think the reason more socialist economies work in certain places is because they tend to be less JI7 Oct 2015 #8
Totally agree with that. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #9
Remember that at the time Orwell said this Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #11
Ah, thanks... F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #12
I'm not a magic bullet man. There is nothing that will resolve deeply ingrained, TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #90
Thanks for that interesting Orwell quote lovemydog Oct 2015 #7
I'm a socialist rooting for Hillary, so I'm neither fish nor fowl this election. Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #10
Question: how do you feel about socialist groups that explicitly F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #14
Heck, the revolutionary black liberation groups and agitators Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #15
Yep, I like them. They've got a lot of good material. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #16
You got that right. The handful of black Greens and other such groups that I know of Number23 Oct 2015 #23
You have such a way with words! ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #27
Seconded. lovemydog Oct 2015 #35
+++ Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #46
Awww. What a sweet and lovely thing to say! Number23 Oct 2015 #50
I don't understand why black americans gwheezie Oct 2015 #17
Our experiences aren't all that different, actually Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #21
I, too, was ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #29
Whereas I was introverted and rebellious Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #31
Oh, don't get it twisted ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #39
Those are lots of questions! :D Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #19
Thanks! F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #26
LOL ... Good luck with that! ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #30
I did something similar years ago- and we did two versions of the flyers- bettyellen Oct 2015 #33
Kick kjones Oct 2015 #13
Don't think the quote is germane to Bernie or this time frame. Buzz cook Oct 2015 #18
Although it was inevitable that Bernie Sanders became a part of this conversation Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #20
It always surprises me how many on the radical left fail to see F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #28
You'll have to define your terms Buzz cook Oct 2015 #85
It was the quote in particular not Orwell in general that I objected to. Buzz cook Oct 2015 #86
Actually, I didn't bring Senator Sanders up...YOU did. Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #87
Hang on there. Buzz cook Oct 2015 #89
You'd be surprised, though Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #24
Awwww SHNAPP. Sooky sooky na Number23 Oct 2015 #22
lol, Well, in this case, it's more George Orwell's than mine Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #25
LOL! lovemydog Oct 2015 #36
Most white Americans believe capitalism is what affords them what they have, whatever that is randys1 Oct 2015 #32
Yes, it's a tough sell. lovemydog Oct 2015 #41
I know this will get me labelled, again and more, a 3rd-Way Centrist ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #53
Yes, the 'And then what?' lovemydog Oct 2015 #54
Well thank you! ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #55
Good point. lovemydog Oct 2015 #56
Yep ... Only it would be for real ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #59
I agree with the gist of the passage, particularly Kind of Blue Oct 2015 #34
Yes. Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #37
I do see your point, Chitown Kev Kind of Blue Oct 2015 #43
Ah, I was wondering when someone would pay attention to that sentence. Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #44
Oh yeah, the whiteness of the space Kind of Blue Oct 2015 #45
Ouch. I see that here in Seattle. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #49
This will be our next topic, in fact Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #52
Damn ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #57
Thank you! That means something Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #60
Yes, sir! ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #62
I owe the phrase "nice white progressive" to an old Kossack Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #63
Okay. Here is the one that started it ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #72
LOL, now I have that Schoolhouse Rock theme in my head Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #75
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #77
Aww, stop :) Kind of Blue Oct 2015 #68
I echo 1SBM. Your exchange with Kev in this thread is fantastic Number23 Oct 2015 #88
Newark riots gwheezie Oct 2015 #65
Or you can do as The University of Chicago did Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #66
The doors to the university gwheezie Oct 2015 #70
LOL...that entitlement rant Kind of Blue Oct 2015 #67
Maybe...maybe not Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #69
Okay and I look forward Kind of Blue Oct 2015 #71
I'm not going to leave you one ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #58
Thanks for this ongoing discussion everyone. lovemydog Oct 2015 #38
I hear more and more cons or teaparty are liking Bernie, that scares me as a Bernie supporter randys1 Oct 2015 #40
Haha, I hear you. lovemydog Oct 2015 #42
I was tabling today (for local elections) Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #47
It shows how dumb and uninformed they are. They support someone who is randys1 Oct 2015 #48
This. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #51
Ismnotwasm havent even tried to figure that out... randys1 Oct 2015 #73
I think it's F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #76
A.Phillip Randolph would probably disagree with Orwell. kwassa Oct 2015 #61
Some of this material has already been covered in this very comment thread Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #64
Do you expect me to actually read a thread before commenting on it? kwassa Oct 2015 #78
LOL, you do have a point, lol... Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #82
Good quote. I'm not really here. bravenak Oct 2015 #74
I SEE YOU!!! scarletwoman Oct 2015 #79
How did this place get worse while I was gone? bravenak Oct 2015 #80
Good question. It's like a spreading madness, and not enough antibodies left to fight it. scarletwoman Oct 2015 #81
Glad you're back gwheezie Oct 2015 #83
Witty AND clever? Uh oh. Probably factual too. bravenak Oct 2015 #84
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