African American

The Traveler

(5,632 posts)

164. Hmmmm ... close

Fri Apr 4, 2014, 06:04 PM

Apr 2014

I think the problem is that they already HAVE a definition in mind. You have to REPLACE that definition, and that takes time and exposure. It just does. We're dealing with the limitations of human cognition here ... and few habits run deeper than habits of linguistic use.

The idea itself is likely to run into resistance with certain people, of course. Other more accessible minds will resist because they THINK they know what you are talking about, when actually they don't, and so they begin their argument from a completely different (and in context incorrect) premise. Agreement upon terms is vital to discussion.

I'm reminded of a statement by Niklaus Wirth, a computer scientist. He pointed out that the only thing completely under the control of a programmer is the nomenclature devised to describe a problem, and specify its solution. I think the principle applies in other arenas.

Just my take on it ... but in any case, I do really appreciate your taking the time to express the point in a manner which finally penetrated my sometimes thick skull.

Trav

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I recently found out that a visitor to my home considers me a racist ... [View all] 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 OP

Here is some irony for you angstlessk Apr 2014 #1

Bravo, 1SBM. sheshe2 Apr 2014 #2

The only question I have about what you write is a technical, definitional one. Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #3

In college Springslips Apr 2014 #5

Thank you. Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #8

growing up a zillion years ago, we were taught that roguevalley Apr 2014 #22

Bigotry is just is repugnant as racism ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #24

I can't agree with that. Bigotry against LGBT affects entire classes of people, not Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #176

Here, too, ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #186

It's important to understand the difference between "racism" and "predjudice" as discussed in the OP Maedhros Apr 2014 #44

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #83

it was never meant to make sense noiretextatique Apr 2014 #205

No argument here. [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2014 #206

However ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #20

That's what I learned as well. TBF Apr 2014 #143

Check out the discussion in this thread MrScorpio Apr 2014 #7

Yes, thanks. Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #9

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #19

AA School Principal who Harasses and Fires a White Subordinate.... Smarmie Doofus Apr 2014 #72

Racial Bigotry. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #98

No its RACISM! Anansi1171 Apr 2014 #189

No it's bigotry. The system did not back him up. bravenak Apr 2014 #191

Okay, but where is that alternate universe where ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #194

Please explain the difference: Smarmie Doofus Apr 2014 #201

Institutional control is much, much broader ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #204

She may have been affected by the RW noise machine. xfundy Apr 2014 #4

Umm... gcomeau Apr 2014 #6

Think about this: MrScorpio Apr 2014 #12

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #57

I'm sorry... gcomeau Apr 2014 #76

Well, let me ask you this� MrScorpio Apr 2014 #78

Ok... gcomeau Apr 2014 #108

What makes the dictionary the ultimate authority on what the word racism means? Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #110

Sociologists may define it so... gcomeau Apr 2014 #111

Black people can't be racist until they have the power to be racist Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #112

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #123

Has it never occurred to folks ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #147

Being racist requires no power. Only a belief. gcomeau Apr 2014 #158

individual racists are not the issue noiretextatique Apr 2014 #208

Says who exactly? gcomeau Apr 2014 #213

You are all argument and not all ears ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #216

Uh-huh... gcomeau Apr 2014 #218

Funny how "progressive" are all about being progressive ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #220

Think through that again. gcomeau Apr 2014 #221

Please think through what I wrote a first time ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #222

Yes, it is you. gcomeau Apr 2014 #223

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #224

Yeah, that's a devastating rebuttal right there. -eom gcomeau Apr 2014 #225

Well just remember JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #226

Not trying to present a devastating rebuttal ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #227

And you clearly just don't read.... gcomeau Apr 2014 #230

Okay. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #231

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #120

I am not changing the meaning of words, this is not a new concept Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #121

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #122

Usage of words change all the time. It's not a matter of authority. M0rpheus Apr 2014 #125

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #126

Because it affects me... daily. M0rpheus Apr 2014 #128

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #130

Compelling arguments. Bravo. Curmudgeoness Apr 2014 #10

"... blacks cannot be racist." greiner3 Apr 2014 #13

But "racist" does not equal bigotry ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #23

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #43

1SBM is considering the term "racism" in a much more sociological rather than colloquial sense. Maedhros Apr 2014 #46

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #50

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #55

It's tough to get your head around the first few times you Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #101

Yet ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #102

Indeed Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #106

it is beyond not buying it noiretextatique Apr 2014 #209

True ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #210

pretty much noiretextatique Apr 2014 #211

The majority of sociologists are white Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #56

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #63

Welcome back! Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #64

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #65

No, I suspect you will soon find out that bigots are not welcome Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #66

Wow! What did I miss? eom. 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #103

You missed one of the most hateful posts I have seen on this site Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #107

Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #114

He only made it to two Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #115

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #54

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #59

No, actually it does. gcomeau Apr 2014 #77

NO, IT ISN'T ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #82

No they do not. gcomeau Apr 2014 #105

Could one ask for a better example of what I ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #113

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #116

Really? ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #138

For cripes sake... gcomeau Apr 2014 #159

I since frustration ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #181

I already understand just fine thank you. gcomeau Apr 2014 #214

See ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #215

Then by all means... gcomeau Apr 2014 #219

My father in law said something a few years ago that might connect here ... JoePhilly Apr 2014 #11

That is put bery well, in my experience. pangaia Apr 2014 #15

It wasn't my daughters fieind that finds my racist ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #25

Default Setting JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #91

BRAVO MY BROTHER!! rury Apr 2014 #14

That's some heavy shit, but I truly understand. Thanks. AAO Apr 2014 #16

Ask your daughter's friend zentrum Apr 2014 #17

She would have never given it a thought ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #26

Oh hell, I can't imagine that Scootaloo Apr 2014 #80

Yeah, I know ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #81

Of course blacks can be racist; have you ever listened to Farrakhan talk about "white devils"? 7962 Apr 2014 #18

Does The Minister Farrakhan's discussions of "white devils" ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #29

There are plenty of examples of blacks in power doing the same thing that whites have done, 7962 Apr 2014 #35

there is no system privileging blacks over whites. racism is not just bigotry La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #40

Name one of these plenty examples ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #42

You do realize that White people are no longer in the majority in California, don't you? JDPriestly Apr 2014 #60

Well said. 7962 Apr 2014 #68

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #69

The power and reinforcing structure in Los Angeles. Here are the city council members and their JDPriestly Apr 2014 #167

I also lived in Los Angeles for many years, and it is not the racial utopia you make it out to be. kwassa Apr 2014 #212

I wasn't going to say anything; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #217

What do you want us to do? M0rpheus Apr 2014 #73

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #109

Here's one for you from just last year: 7962 Apr 2014 #67

Thom Hartmann discussed the difference between "racism" and "predjudice" on his radio show, Maedhros Apr 2014 #47

Most of the music in my house -- CDs, sheet music -- is old time country music OldRedneck Apr 2014 #21

I'm sorry ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #31

Jazz does move me. Does that mean I am biased toward African-Americans? JDPriestly Apr 2014 #61

Ahhh, common ground ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #70

As a Yankee who lived as a teenager in the pre-1960s South, I understand the suffering of JDPriestly Apr 2014 #157

Only Patsy Cline and Loretta Lynn. bravenak Apr 2014 #39

Patsy transcends color lines Laughing Mirror Apr 2014 #118

I love her too much. bravenak Apr 2014 #192

That reminds me, Leadbelly was a big Gene Autry fan BeyondGeography Apr 2014 #154

Thank you for putting your discussion out here. NBachers Apr 2014 #27

everyone is "racist" alc Apr 2014 #28

no, the word has a very definite meaning. it's a system that privileges one race over another La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #38

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #45

I guess my question to you would be: why is it important to erase the distinction? Maedhros Apr 2014 #53

If you think you can understand a complex social issue by reading the dictionary you are mistaken Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #62

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #129

I'll rephrase my question from a few posts up and direct it to you: Maedhros Apr 2014 #132

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #135

The distinction has been made by a great number of people, not just me. Maedhros Apr 2014 #136

it has multiple meanings Enrique Apr 2014 #153

Lost its meaning to whom? ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #48

The word institution is not in the definition of racism... Blanks Apr 2014 #88

Wow gollygee Apr 2014 #30

I know ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #33

And on that I'm with you 100%! 7962 Apr 2014 #36

"Whitesplaining" [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2014 #99

A lot of people think that simply going to Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #104

I'm sorry that happened to you. nt AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #32

I'm not ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #34

you were far more patient than i would have been. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #37

Honestly ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #49

ahh. i see. i am glad you tried to explain systematic oppressions vs individual bigotry La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #58

You did good. bravenak Apr 2014 #41

So woule you consider a person who described himself as follows a white racist: JDPriestly Apr 2014 #51

I'd slightly disagree with the "can't be racist" JoeyT Apr 2014 #52

Without the power, it's bigotry. jeff47 Apr 2014 #71

...do not define myself, or my condition, relative to white folks...no reason to talk them down.. freshwest Apr 2014 #74

I go away for a few hours... MrScorpio Apr 2014 #75

Ok, that's just, well...pathetic! And your visitor was....ummmm, what's the word? Racist!!!! MADem Apr 2014 #79

Substitute "white" for "black" and vice versa throughout your OP... Not Sure Apr 2014 #84

Would anyone else like to point out the inherent problems with this post? MrScorpio Apr 2014 #85

Oh dear JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #93

Bjorn Against did a dynamite job, I gotta say MrScorpio Apr 2014 #94

Sure did! JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #97

Here is the difference between uplifting the black community and uplifting the white community Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #86

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #90

+2 MrScorpio Apr 2014 #100

Knocked it out of the park! M0rpheus Apr 2014 #119

Amazing post!! I had to take a break from this place and am just seeing this post Number23 Apr 2014 #239

I hope heaven05 Apr 2014 #87

Again ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #92

They can't "see" it heaven JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #95

I'm just laughing at some of the responses to this thread JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #89

I for one LOVE when white liberals get self righteous and judgmental IronLionZion Apr 2014 #96

what a great conversation! BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2014 #117

Applicable quote Lamonte Apr 2014 #124

How is that applicable to this discussion? eom. 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #141

Wtf did that even mean? bravenak Apr 2014 #195

I have no clue ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #197

That's a strange question for a visitor to ask... Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #127

Actually ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #139

Ok, I understand now Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #140

Very interesting discussion The Traveler Apr 2014 #131

You are lamentably correct about much of what you post. Maedhros Apr 2014 #133

That reminds me of Mr. Scorpio's "Privilege" post of a couple weeks ago ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #144

Sometimes it IS best to shut up and listen. [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2014 #145

"Don't tell me to STFU!" ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #149

To that person, I would say this: Maedhros Apr 2014 #150

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #156

As long as white folks JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #165

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #168

Damned if you didn't just make the point. M0rpheus Apr 2014 #170

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #171

Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #177

Nothing JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #182

He said almost the same thing you said in the "STFU" post above M0rpheus Apr 2014 #190

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #196

You can take that position The Traveler Apr 2014 #160

The more we talk about these things, the more we iron out the points of misunderstanding. Maedhros Apr 2014 #173

Actually ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #178

Agreed. Maedhros Apr 2014 #187

That would general be true ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #193

Yes!!!! The Traveler Apr 2014 #207

You can be open to new ideas and reject them Bok_Tukalo Apr 2014 #228

Yeah ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #232

If you say so. Bok_Tukalo Apr 2014 #233

There are ideas ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #234

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #137

Point taken ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #142

Hmmmm ... close The Traveler Apr 2014 #164

Most of the books on my shelves are by white people ... eppur_se_muova Apr 2014 #134

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #162

Is the blonde, blue-eyed Jesus equally sacrilegious? arcane1 Apr 2014 #166

Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #169

Or, does it reflect unconscious bias on my part ... ;) eppur_se_muova Apr 2014 #172

Wouldn't this be dependent on the particular culture/country you're living in? pnwmom Apr 2014 #146

That would be the case ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #151

So even these, assuming they're true, aren't examples of racism? pnwmom Apr 2014 #155

No, this is not "racism" ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #179

Below I made the point JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #183

I think you have to consider the life experience of black Americans JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #180

I'm not very familiar with the DeBlasio situation pnwmom Apr 2014 #184

Stop and Frisk JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #188

I'm glad you joined DU! DocMac Apr 2014 #148

I despise him ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #152

I have not read this whole thread...sorry no time right now passiveporcupine Apr 2014 #161

As the OP starter ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #198

I don't think about people by their color either. passiveporcupine Apr 2014 #202

K&R BumRushDaShow Apr 2014 #163

Your spot is the kind of spot every Black child should be raised ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #199

What is cool is that one book I have is "Before the Mayflower" BumRushDaShow Apr 2014 #203

K&R stonecutter357 Apr 2014 #174

I am thinking that she is still young TNNurse Apr 2014 #175

You should JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #185

Kick! bravenak Apr 2014 #200

Nice discussion. Feral Child Apr 2014 #229

In short: MrScorpio Apr 2014 #235

I see what you mean ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #236

Good call nt MrScorpio Apr 2014 #237

Really really good point JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #238

Ahh yes, the "YES YOU CAN BE A RACIST TOO!" randys1 Apr 2014 #240

It puzzles me ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #241