Religion

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)

69. Baloney

Mon Oct 7, 2013, 05:16 PM

Oct 2013

That one sentence beautifully highlights how wrong you are in your whole posting philosophy here.

We have conflict because people think that how deeply felt and fervent their belief or "faith" is has anything to do with how true it is (the hallmark of religiously based thinking), rather than basing the strength of their convictions on the strength of the objective evidence supporting those convictions (the hallmark of the skeptical, rational thinking that serious and intelligent people base things on).

Conflicts are settled by reaching greater and greater agreement on what is really true, based on the accumulation of more and more evidence, not by whiny folk saying "Nyah, Nyah, you can't prove I'm wrong, so I'm just as right as you!!" It happens in science all the time. That's why you don't have thousands of sects of scientists, each doing their own thing and each thinking they're just a little bit righter than all the rest. But not in religion, because the people there think that faith should trump evidence, and that their beliefs need have no rational connection to reality.

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Just a thought.... [View all] Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 OP

Cool! You managed to get Jews, Christians and Muslims all in one shot! cbayer Oct 2013 #1

Nevertheless, the stories told about Abraham do show him to be a dick muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #2

Imagine what they'll think of us in 4,000 years. rug Oct 2013 #3

I'd hope they won't be holding a dick up as a paragon of virtue (nt) muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #4

What you consider a paragon of virtue now, they likely won't. rug Oct 2013 #5

But the Abraham character is a dick now, and yet he's still in the book over 2,500 years later muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #6

What is or is not dickishness changes over time. rug Oct 2013 #7

"the only 'redeeming' thing about Abraham is that he does what God tells him" trotsky Oct 2013 #8

That's also assuming there really WAS a "god" involved and he wasn't crazy or lying. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #13

The "gotcha" being that we have absolutely no way to tell the difference! n/t trotsky Oct 2013 #15

Had to add this... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #17

You could say Abraham started a chain of events that led to more deaths than anyone else in history. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #11

I find it hard to believe anyone really thinks he existed unless they insist all the bible is true muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #22

The OT is a conglomeration of popular myths from many cultures and a few facts.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #24

One detail strikes me as very realistic. Sarah dies (Genesis 23) far away in Canaan. dimbear Oct 2013 #81

You crack me up sometimes, dimbear. cbayer Oct 2013 #91

I love Bible verse time. dimbear Oct 2013 #100

You could but you'd look ridiculous. rug Oct 2013 #43

Ever meet someone who can't wrap their head around the idea of someone not believing in Jesus? Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #49

Yes I have. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #51

Weird,...isn't it. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #59

Yes i would say it is werd and can be annoying. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #64

Especially if you were raised to believe everyone is equal. And they come off as superior. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #68

So, let me ask you this - do you think that believers are equal to you cbayer Oct 2013 #72

That depends. The GOAL is Peace On Earth. Some think to get there they need to kill. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #74

Is what you are saying is that you feel superior to those who cbayer Oct 2013 #76

No, I'm saying those who feel the need to kill feel superior when they're not. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #87

So you haven't answered my questions about whether you feel superior to believers. cbayer Oct 2013 #89

Not at all. I know it's cultural. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #93

Do you think most Christians kill or think they need to kill? hrmjustin Oct 2013 #77

Some do. They feel they are in a war with the secular world. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #90

Unfortunately we have members of our faith that have commited violence in the name of God, but most hrmjustin Oct 2013 #92

It's when someone believes they are the instrument that things get freaky. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #94

Yes but that is a very small amount of the population. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #95

Considering how VAST the population of religion types there are even a fraction percent is too many. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #98

I agree. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #99

We believe that all are equal. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #73

Many now claim that's Commie talk. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #78

Maybe in RW circles but not here in NYC. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #79

That's because you can't play Davy Crockett in Central Park. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #84

Rarely. rug Oct 2013 #83

NYC is multicultural so people are exposed to different ideas. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #85

I find this rather offensive. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #9

You wouldn't if you were an outsider. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #10

What's an outsider? And do you speak for all of them? cbayer Oct 2013 #12

Do you speak for all insiders? Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #14

What makes you think I am an insider? cbayer Oct 2013 #19

No. It was meant to provide a unique perspective. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #20

It's not a unique perspective. cbayer Oct 2013 #21

Most Christians don't even know who Abraham was. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #25

How do you know that? hrmjustin Oct 2013 #27

Ask them. They know Adam and Eve and the only reason they know Moses is the 10 Commandments.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #32

All the Christians I know, know who he is. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #33

Try the ones at Walmart. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #35

I think Christians who read their ible know who Abraham is. He is a rather central figure in the OT. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #37

The Bible is a PROP to many of them. Something to wave and thump.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #40

I would say many people use the bile as a sword and they should not. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #42

That's because Abraham is not the central character in their religion. cbayer Oct 2013 #30

There really is such a thing as "blind faith". Some even take PRIDE in it. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #36

Agree, because that is the basis of faith. cbayer Oct 2013 #39

It is when you claim people who think are a danger. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #41

Who claims that people that think are a danger? cbayer Oct 2013 #45

Do you even KNOW anyone who drives an SUV? Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #46

What does that have to do with it? Of course I do. cbayer Oct 2013 #48

"What do you drive?" Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #55

Lol! Well, I'm glad you returned to the thread. cbayer Oct 2013 #60

I'm dealing with things on this end. Laundry, scrubbing floors... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #63

I'm trying to stay out of the blazing sun, keep my queasiness at bay cbayer Oct 2013 #70

Your perspective, that all faiths and religions are equal and valid... trotsky Oct 2013 #28

Thanks for your response, woke me from this twilight zone Southside Oct 2013 #53

What exactly did you find enlightening? cbayer Oct 2013 #58

Every time I read his posts I feel a bright light of clear unbiased logic. rug Oct 2013 #86

You are welcome to post in the religion group as much as you want. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #88

Yes, we all know very well skepticscott Oct 2013 #23

We are going to have conflict as long as we have an urge to have kingdoms.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #26

We are going to have conflict as long as one group thinks they are cbayer Oct 2013 #31

At least Christians are mellowing.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #34

You are right, they are still around. cbayer Oct 2013 #38

What I see in young people is questioning why they need to keep this stuff going... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #44

Some are, others are not. cbayer Oct 2013 #47

Religion is facing rejection due to it's dogma. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #50

I can say my parish has plenty of younger people. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #52

As a percentage of the population the numbers are falling. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #57

Religions need to speak to the times they are in. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #61

Now all you have to do is get them to end hunger worldwide. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #66

Religion is not going to solve that alone. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #67

The money they raise could.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #71

I believe that members should decide where the money goes. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #75

I've volunteered at a Lutheran food bank. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #80

Great glad to hear it. We have many Epicopal food banks here in NYC. We also help LGBT homeless hrmjustin Oct 2013 #82

There needs to be a purge of the con men who treat religion as a money maker. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #96

I agree. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #97

So will anti-theism if it keeps going in the same direction. cbayer Oct 2013 #54

That kinda goes back to the "Atheism is a religion" nonsense. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #56

I've never made that claim, but dogma is not confined only to religious belief. cbayer Oct 2013 #62

That is very true. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #65

Baloney skepticscott Oct 2013 #69

I still find it offensive. But i will move on. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #16

Whew,...certainy glad the whole "burning heretics" thing has fallen out of fashion. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #18

Ok. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #29