2016 Postmortem

NewHampshiriteGuy

(95 posts)

69. I'm seriously confused by this...

Sat May 21, 2016, 10:49 AM

May 2016

So the primaries should be more democratic if they work in your preferred candidate's favor, but it's okay if they're less democratic because there's only two major parties and they're dominated by money?

Shouldn't the primaries be MORE democratic to reduce the influence of money and the power of the party elites regardless of which candidate is leading? Overturning the majority of voters doesn't make the primaries more democratic...and doesn't reduce the influence of money and power. That's a real slippery slope and a dangerous precedent.

Democracy doesn't always result in the election of the best candidate (although that judgement is very subjective)...but it's definitely better if the people select their candidate of choice rather than a small group of people selected by the party power structure.

I certainly wouldn't be supporting the idea of superdelegates overturning the pledged delegates and popular vote if Bernie was in the lead just because Clinton is my preferred candidate.

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Here's why I still think Bernie Sanders should be the nominee... [View all] tom-servo May 2016 OP

Bernie will win. Here is exactly why RealAmericanDem May 2016 #1

Here's why I still think Hillary Clinton should be the nominee... DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #2

Yes, but... tom-servo May 2016 #4

If Team A beats Team B... DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #6

This is more like a job interview... tom-servo May 2016 #12

The primary was an ersatz job interview and 3,000,000 more of the interviewers gave her the job. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #15

Then who would make the decision? yardwork May 2016 #24

The superdelegates tom-servo May 2016 #34

Ok. It's up to them. Go talk to them. yardwork May 2016 #39

The FBI -none May 2016 #154

We don't count votes in the primary... leftinportland May 2016 #60

If it's a lot of talk put your money where your mouth is. I will... DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #63

One hundred dollars...too steep for me... leftinportland May 2016 #165

I don't have much money but I will donate 20 to your 10 DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #166

Confused... leftinportland May 2016 #167

This is even easier... Sure... Please remind me... If I win I will let you go double or nothing ... DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #168

Bernie beat the spread! Doesn't that mean he deserves the nomination?! Or something!!?! tritsofme May 2016 #91

Beating the spread is an understatement... tom-servo May 2016 #108

Her lead now is larger than Obama's lead in 2008. How big does it need to be? Arkansas Granny May 2016 #11

The existence of superdelegates seems to imply... tom-servo May 2016 #16

Then, what is your point? It appears to me that the SD's are aligning with primary results. Arkansas Granny May 2016 #18

My point is... tom-servo May 2016 #29

I believe they have selected the better candidate. Arkansas Granny May 2016 #31

I do hope you're right, if she is the nominee. tom-servo May 2016 #35

I don't, not by a long shot. And THAT is the entire point. pangaia May 2016 #51

Yeah... tom-servo May 2016 #75

Exactly. I like your OP, well written and to the point. Lack of exposure except appalachiablue May 2016 #115

Thanks... tom-servo May 2016 #121

Same for me and millions! appalachiablue May 2016 #122

If after decades in congress, SBS is not "known" by the SDs, well, he has a big problem lunamagica May 2016 #142

I didn't mean known to the super delegates... tom-servo May 2016 #143

Much more? She's millions of votes and hundreds of PDs ahead. She's way, way more ahead lunamagica May 2016 #140

I concur...n/t asuhornets May 2016 #77

Damn good reason right there! workinclasszero May 2016 #78

So you think this has been a fair and "democratic" primary so far? tom-servo May 2016 #82

As fair as any other we have had workinclasszero May 2016 #83

Exactly the point...this isn't a fair process... tom-servo May 2016 #88

They should rethink what exactly? The majority vote of democrats? Really? workinclasszero May 2016 #93

I think we've been there for awhile... tom-servo May 2016 #97

So let me ask you this workinclasszero May 2016 #102

Bernie Sanders supporters should at the very least try to affect the platform... tom-servo May 2016 #113

Who's stopping him? workinclasszero May 2016 #120

It sounded like you were suggesting Bernie Sanders supporters... tom-servo May 2016 #137

Well hey I wish he would workinclasszero May 2016 #148

I consider Hillary's campaign to be one dirty trick after another and so will her Presidency be one Todays_Illusion May 2016 #87

Yeah, she stole data from her opponent, her supporters impersonated union members... DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #89

Never mind, that talking point lie posted has been debunked. Todays_Illusion May 2016 #92

Wasn't too hard/True/True/True/Mostly True DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #94

Impressive, 3 unrelated posts and one that contratdicts the talking point lie. Todays_Illusion May 2016 #98

I cited data pilfering, campaign finance irregularities, impersonating union members, and ... DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #100

you are denying what your own link said about the data theft lie. FALSE Todays_Illusion May 2016 #104

I am content to let the readers decide. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #106

You're kidding, right? CrowCityDem May 2016 #3

The narrative has been that... tom-servo May 2016 #7

Ok then Sanders needs a better event promoter. MyNameGoesHere May 2016 #47

I think a fairer, less entertainment-centered media... tom-servo May 2016 #61

No you just needed a better MyNameGoesHere May 2016 #84

I don't have the link but, Obama in 2008 had a few big rallies but, Henhouse May 2016 #86

That would be an interesting link... tom-servo May 2016 #90

I think maybe you have been asleep in the back seat if you think all that is true. pangaia May 2016 #54

Sorry, is it not a FACT that he's been on more Sunday shows than anyone? CrowCityDem May 2016 #59

That's possible and maybe worth verifying... tom-servo May 2016 #64

So...we should invalidate the primary results? NewHampshiriteGuy May 2016 #5

we should let the primary play out as fairly and trasnparently democratic-ly as possible. Hiraeth May 2016 #8

"So...we should invalidate the results? " DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #9

Isn't that what is usually called a coup? greatauntoftriplets May 2016 #153

Yeah, it's a difficult question... tom-servo May 2016 #10

The race is not close. Hillary has won a clear majority of votes, delegates and super delegates. Arkansas Granny May 2016 #14

I disagree... tom-servo May 2016 #17

That's your opinion but the fact is that one candidate holds a clear lead. yardwork May 2016 #25

I'm just not convinced it's a clear lead given the circumstances. tom-servo May 2016 #58

Then you need an abacus griffi94 May 2016 #110

Given their relative advantages/disadvantages at the start... tom-servo May 2016 #138

Obama started as a virtual unknown with far less than 25 years Fresh_Start May 2016 #157

Obama was a "rising star" for a few years before he ran... tom-servo May 2016 #160

It only matters to you griffi94 May 2016 #161

She did obviously workinclasszero May 2016 #79

Not in mine... tom-servo May 2016 #85

"Held on" by 3 MILLION workinclasszero May 2016 #109

I don't think the fact that she is a woman... tom-servo May 2016 #141

I don't remember all this stuff going on when workinclasszero May 2016 #146

I'm pretty sure that my opinions aren't based on gender... tom-servo May 2016 #162

I'm just saying a woman seems to have to do more workinclasszero May 2016 #163

Not a difficult question at all... NewHampshiriteGuy May 2016 #20

If the democratic party were a governmental body... tom-servo May 2016 #45

I'm seriously confused by this... NewHampshiriteGuy May 2016 #69

I'm saying that... tom-servo May 2016 #81

That's some serious cognitive dissonance mythology May 2016 #107

Where's the cognitive dissonance? tom-servo May 2016 #123

She win winning the popular vote 57-43. That's not a weak majority. That's a blow out. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #26

The popular vote in a primary with caucuses... tom-servo May 2016 #42

That is with caucus votes allocated DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #44

They're estimates... tom-servo May 2016 #53

So DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #55

So the best metrics are the real thing. tom-servo May 2016 #56

So she is winning by 11% in pledged delegates. Does that seem close to you? DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #57

I still don't understand the sports analogies... tom-servo May 2016 #66

Precisely. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #67

Gets the most votes in the general election...this is still just party candidate selection. tom-servo May 2016 #68

And in party elections it is customary for the nominee who has garnered the most votes. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #71

I actually didn't realized there was a precedent that recent... tom-servo May 2016 #72

Not as upset as the faction that has 3,00,000 more votes would be if it was stolen from them. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #73

If I was a betting man... tom-servo May 2016 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #99

That's a clever twist, but not really accurate... tom-servo May 2016 #105

Here's why I still think the Carolina Panthers should be this year's Super Bowl champs wyldwolf May 2016 #13

That is pretty funny... tom-servo May 2016 #19

You're proposing one of two things, possibly both wyldwolf May 2016 #21

You mean I'm proposing... tom-servo May 2016 #22

of course now. Hillary has won the most votes, the most states and the most delegates wyldwolf May 2016 #23

Heh... tom-servo May 2016 #27

Heh wyldwolf May 2016 #30

We are also not a democracy... tom-servo May 2016 #38

How cute a standard libertarian response wyldwolf May 2016 #41

Do libertarians normally say we are not in a democracy? tom-servo May 2016 #43

yup. Like most of what they say, it isn't grounded in fact. wyldwolf May 2016 #46

We are technically a democratic republic. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #48

exactly. We're a type of Democracy, but still a Democracy wyldwolf May 2016 #50

The person with the most votes gets to represent us and express our will... DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #52

This is why I don't think we are living in a democracy... tom-servo May 2016 #49

Go Bernie liberal from boston May 2016 #152

And take Ralph Nader with you wyldwolf May 2016 #159

And both anti-democratic as hell workinclasszero May 2016 #80

And both are directly relevant to this primary... tom-servo May 2016 #95

Here's why I still think the world is flat. YouDig May 2016 #28

That's cute... tom-servo May 2016 #32

Because I don't think the world is flat. And also I believe in democracy. YouDig May 2016 #33

So do I, we just aren't really living in one at the moment. tom-servo May 2016 #36

3 million more votes. 270 more elected delegates. The democratic will prevails. YouDig May 2016 #37

Sure, of course... will of the people. tom-servo May 2016 #40

Yes, and let's not forget that his national favorability ratings are far higher than hers Time for change May 2016 #62

Yes those are all also strong arguments...thanks. tom-servo May 2016 #70

It's really simple for me. . . Trump would be a disaster as President. Hillary won't beat him. pdsimdars May 2016 #65

So you want to disenfranchise the 13+ million voter that have clearly said no to BS? n/t SFnomad May 2016 #76

People who come in second place should not expect to win. hrmjustin May 2016 #96

That would make sense to me if it were a foot race. tom-servo May 2016 #101

So basically you think the will of the people means nothing because you like Sanders hrmjustin May 2016 #103

The poster could have tried to outwork you when you delivered NY for Hillary. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #112

Lol you give me too much credit. hrmjustin May 2016 #114

That's also a clever twist, but again not accurate tom-servo May 2016 #116

That is exactly what you are saying. hrmjustin May 2016 #119

I'm glad there are still believers. tom-servo May 2016 #128

So, why does Hillary think it's her turn after she came in 2nd in 2008? k8conant May 2016 #133

She said it was her turn? hrmjustin May 2016 #134

Why would your opinion about this matter more than the fact that BS lost in a democratic election? Squinch May 2016 #111

Well... it matters to me. tom-servo May 2016 #117

But he lost the primary. No one person's opinion matters more than the majority. The very large Squinch May 2016 #118

I think the democratic party disagrees... tom-servo May 2016 #124

Hillary is demolishing BS in the popular vote and the pledged delegate vote. Demolishing him. Squinch May 2016 #125

Because Situational Ethics. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #126

And Mom always got me a prize whether I won or not. Squinch May 2016 #127

He can get one in Philadelphia DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #129

That's not the one they want. And see, they are holding their breath till they turn blue Squinch May 2016 #132

I don't have a complicated relationship with super delegates... tom-servo May 2016 #130

Whatever dude. It's over and that's not going to happen. Have a nice day. Squinch May 2016 #131

You are arguing they overrule the voters. hrmjustin May 2016 #135

He knows. Doesn't care. He wants his opinion to override that. Because reasons. Squinch May 2016 #136

I would like a democracy... tom-servo May 2016 #147

You do realize Clinton supporters would stay home on election day if tthey steal the nomination hrmjustin May 2016 #149

I don't think so... tom-servo May 2016 #150

I would not vote for him if he steal the nomination and yes other HRC supporters would stay home. hrmjustin May 2016 #155

&1% of Sanders supporters say they would vote for Hillary. very hight percentage, and this lunamagica May 2016 #139

Will you be posting this kind of stuff long after November? barrow-wight May 2016 #144

What do you mean? tom-servo May 2016 #145

Millions were locked out of the primary process. onecaliberal May 2016 #151

by their own choices Fresh_Start May 2016 #158

I applaud your positive appeal for Bernie's candidacy, devoid of McCarthyist character assassination Bill USA May 2016 #156

Fortunately for the country, it's not up to you. n/t Lucinda May 2016 #164

I guess we can hope you're right about that if Clinton wins. tom-servo May 2016 #169

Here is why he won't Demsrule86 May 2016 #170

You do understand that math can't be used... tom-servo May 2016 #171