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Sancho

(9,205 posts)
19. I doubt you'll change your mind, but I see some things differently...
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jun 2015
Any candidate must earn my support. Being "next in line" or "inevitable" does not earn my vote. Talking about the evils of Wall Street while filling your war chest with piles of their cash does not earn my vote.


After the Koch brothers and friends (Scott Walker, Rick Scott, etc.) proved that BIG money could beat the unions and popular voters - they started to take over. No Democrat has had resources to fight back since the Kennedy's and FDR (who were very progressive). The Clintons figured out how to fight back, but their foundation and PAC's are pretty transparent. Not like the Bushes and Koch's who hide behind shell organizations. Unless we change the law, no Democrat can win with the new money put into the elections unless they raise big bucks. Hillary REPRESENTED NY. She could not, as a Senator, attack her own constituents. Regardless, most retirees, union retirement funds, and international partners do NOT want to dismantle Wall Street.

Hillary and Obama know that putting a few CEO's in jail (like we did with Enron) won't do anything - another clone will step up. Do you really have knowledge that Hillary, who meets with Warren and is "liked" by Sanders is really going to cave to Wall Street any more than Obama? I just read "Sons of Wichita: How the Koch Brothers Became America's Most Powerful and Private Dynasty" by Daniel Schulman. Those are really the enemy to our democracy, not the Clinton's.

Being unwilling to take a stand on TTP does not earn my vote.


Hillary is under oath NOT TO REVEAL what's in the TPP from her days as S0S. It's been reported that she won't sign a trade deal that hurt American jobs. It's also been reported that she and Obama have a deal not to criticize each others' efforts until the primary is over. She said she would take trade deals as they come up one at at time. She has supported some and not supported others. She may have a stand that will be revealed, but the TPP is more of a symbol than reality at this time, because it's not finished and we don't know what's in it. Don't interpret her lack of announcements so far to mean that she doesn't have a position. She probably does.

HRC inspires no such feelings in me. She only inspires dread that once again we will end up with one of the two candidates the Corporate/Media powers that be give us. I'm through with Business As Usual so if HRC wins the White house (which I seriously doubt she can) she may do it with my vote but she will not get my support. I believe you'll find that many progressives feel the same way and that HRC will not inspire the same grass-roots movement that helped President Obama win the White House. This is why I truly believe HRC cannot win the White House and it scares the hell out of me that she may win the Democratic Nomination.


In much of the rest of the country, Hillary is inspiring! 25% of FL was born outside the US. Women all over the sunbelt have been treated as second class on salaries for a long time, and now face crazy medical and choice laws. To women and immigrants from Cl to FL, TX, and even midwestern states, Hillary is the first and only candidate who identifies with them. She will get LOTS of independent and crossover votes from the GOP - who love her stands on a path to citizenship and equal rights for women. Maybe those aren't important in the NE, but it's #1 on issues for millions in middle America. 20 million people with families and kids have been here for years (decades) and can't vote, pay taxes, become lawyers, or anything because they are not citizens. Hillary gets it!

I have two young children and I want to see them grow up in a progressive "Sanders" version of America as opposed to a wall-street determined "Clinton" version.


Since her days in AK, Hillary has been an advocate for day care, preschool, public education, rights for working mothers, and children's medical care. I don't see why anyone with young children wouldn't appreciate those efforts from decades of work. Even the conservative Christians in the Bible belt give the Clinton Foundation credit for the missionary like work it does. Hillary personally has long been a national and international advocate for women, mothers, and education. That precedes her days as a Senator and SOS and now candidate.

In other words, she has been as active for social justice as anyone. My wife and I have almost 40 years as educators. We also have seen lots of good that unions have done in the South where we grew up. Hillary has been a supporter of unions and public schools. Obama has been a disappointment on both.

I would simply ask you to consider if you really know all the facts before dismissing Hilary as a candidate.

http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-and-immigration/
http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-fighting-for-americas-workers/
http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-education-for-girls-futures/
http://correctrecord.org/breaking-glass-womens-economic-empowerment/
http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-a-lifetime-champion-of-income-opportunity-2/
http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clintons-strong-support-of-americorps/

I'm not as convinced that the recent economic crisis "defines" Hillary as much as you do.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Ask yourself this question: Buzz Clik Jun 2015 #1
My guess would be the Clinton supporters, but that still does not answer my question. Cal33 Jun 2015 #2
The reason why I asked was to test the sincerity of your question. Buzz Clik Jun 2015 #3
I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, the Clinton supporters were not exactly very friendly Cal33 Jun 2015 #5
You don't remember correctly. DURHAM D Jun 2015 #8
I don't remember having read any Clinton supporter saying they would not vote for Sanders Cal33 Jun 2015 #13
I would vote for Sanders stonecutter357 Jun 2015 #15
If you are a Clinton supporter but would vote for Sanders should he win in the Primaries, then Cal33 Jun 2015 #17
I've not seen ONE Clinton supporter say they wouldn't vote for the nominee. MADem Jun 2015 #16
+1000 rock Jun 2015 #18
Sanders will not be the nominee so there is upaloopa Jun 2015 #27
To split a minor distinction... Chan790 Jun 2015 #24
Your correct ... Cosmocat Jun 2015 #23
Just a point MuseRider Jun 2015 #34
Well, I AM a Hillary fan, and I see boatloads of bile from too many in the Bernie Sanders camp calimary Jun 2015 #38
Yes, there are Bernie Sanders hardliners here. I have been debating with one the past several Cal33 Jun 2015 #48
Yeah. calimary Jun 2015 #50
Yes and Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #4
Thanks for the info, and I am glad. Cal33 Jun 2015 #6
Try to find a single post in which a Hillary supporter says they will not ... JoePhilly Jun 2015 #7
A poster implied last night that it's a full 20% of you according to polling. Chan790 Jun 2015 #25
Hillary supporters do not expect to lose. upaloopa Jun 2015 #29
Well, this Hillary supporter is hoping that's how it turns out. calimary Jun 2015 #39
Didn't expect it in 08 either. nt awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #41
Do you have a link to the (cough) BS poll (cough) they mentioned? JoePhilly Jun 2015 #35
I just looked...I miscited him. Chan790 Jun 2015 #36
Let's see what happens ... JoePhilly Jun 2015 #37
I think at the end of the day DFW Jun 2015 #9
I hope almost all Democrats will vote for the Democratic candidate come Nov. 2016. Cal33 Jun 2015 #20
There's a difference. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #22
The difference is there, of course DFW Jun 2015 #47
Point taken. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #49
There's a big difference between earning a vote or getting one by default. Indepatriot Jun 2015 #10
I doubt you'll change your mind, but I see some things differently... Sancho Jun 2015 #19
I think it's and interesting thread. Sancho Jun 2015 #11
I think Bernie is too decent a person to revert to being an Independent late in the game. He and Cal33 Jun 2015 #21
EXCELLENT points you make, Sancho. calimary Jun 2015 #43
Holy shit. Arkana Jun 2015 #12
my first choice is Bernie Sanders John_Doe80004 Jun 2015 #14
Thank you John_Doe80004! calimary Jun 2015 #44
Not me. Maedhros Jun 2015 #26
Of course, you'll effectively be doing just that bvf Jun 2015 #45
A lot of Clinton supporters turned PUMA when Obama got the nod. Did most of them just let off peacebird Jun 2015 #28
Oh Good Gawd! There never really was a PUMA! leftofcool Jun 2015 #51
All I know of it was what I read in the media after Obama got the nom, but a wiki search also brings peacebird Jun 2015 #53
I am happy he is running and hope he does well and stays in the applegrove Jun 2015 #30
Considering the alternative (a Republican crazy no matter which one) Clinton is the only acceptable rurallib Jun 2015 #31
What the holy fuck? OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #32
Democrat over republican Clayguy61 Jun 2015 #33
Well, it is Democratic Underground... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #40
And another thought... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #42
No it is not clear most Sanders supporters on this site would support Clinton. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #46
Clinton needs to listen to sanders and Warren UCmeNdc Jun 2015 #52
Hillary will pull a Lieberman if she loses to Sanders yurbud Jun 2015 #54
I don't think so. That's going too far someone who was a Democratic First Lady. She Cal33 Jun 2015 #56
Of course we would support Sanders if he won the primary. musicblind Jun 2015 #55
This is what the primaries are for Marrah_G Jun 2015 #57
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