2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: The one thing that will stop Bernie Sanders.....his supporters [View all]JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)1) the TPP legislation is not complete ... sure one can scream about how terrible it is, but I'd actually like to see it first. I'm not against the US making trade deals.
2) XL pipeline ... I find it interesting that folks who were absolutely sure Obama would fast track that (and were wrong about that), are now very sure Hillary will immediately push it through too. The reality is that the Obama administration is still doing the research on it, and sure, you can scream how awful it is, that's easy.
3) On no ... she didn't support marriage equality years earlier. Neither did Obama, and yet *GASP* he got it done. Why? Because he knew that if he ran on that, he'd have LOST, and it would have never happened by now. Here again, much of DU attacked Obama. Said he'd never end DADT, never support ending DOMA. Demanded he write an executive order. Instead, he worked the government. And now its done.
And that point is important. I find Bernie, and many of his supporters, take a rather pie in the sky mindset. Whether some on the left like it or not, Obama has gotten a great deal done. He's Presidency has been incredibly effective. I prefer that approach to moon howling. I don't just want some one who will stake out outrageous positions, I want things to actually get done. There is a segment on DU who has howled at Obama endlessly, and been wrong over and over. They seem to be some of the loudest anti-Hillary folks now, and that stands out to me.
4) Oh yes. The Iraq war vote. The one we gave Kerry a pass on in 2004. Strange that. And so many of you pretend that at the end of it she did not implore Bush to use this authorization as a last resort, which he did not do. And some of you pretend to not notice it. It was a mistake to give Bush that authority. I doubt any one who voted yes thought that Bush would not listen to the inspectors. For many, the goal of that vote was to get Saddam to let the inspectors back in. Which is exactly what happened immediately after the vote. Another point some tend to forget. It should have ended there. It didn't. Which is a great reason to never let the GOP be in charge again. Not a great reason to not support Kerry in 2004, or Clinton now. And I seem to recall folks here on DU who were sure Obama and Hillary were going to start Iraq style wars in Libya, Egypt, Syria. Didn't happen. Bottom line, I find a lot of the folks screaming about this to be disingenuous across the board on this topic.
As so often happens in this policy discussions, its the approach. I disagree with the part of the left who pushes for all or nothing approaches. The way our government is structured that approach doesn't work. And you get nothing. No progress.
And so ... Bernie would have my support if he were to win the primary. And its possible that I could come to support him in the primary. But I am not confident that he could get anything done if elected, and I'm not at all confident he could win the GE at all ... and that point is critical although some in your camp blow it off.
My #1 issue is not letting the GOP take the White House. That trumps everything else. #2, I have to believe that the policy positions being put forward are not just pie in the sky ... they have to be workable solutions. I get the sense that some of Bernie's supporters here think he'll become President and then "poof" the banks get broken up. How's that going to happen? I have a great deal of confidence that Hillary can get things done. Bernie, not so much. But he could convince me.