2016 Postmortem

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)

100. I don't think every single speech has to open with fawning praise of the

Tue Dec 15, 2015, 03:43 AM

Dec 2015

President. This is not North Korea, you know. Sen. Sanders and the vast majority of just of us progressives understand very well that the Republicans are far worse. EVERYONE gets that, I hope. But if the popular meme is that the Clinton's, President Obama and the mainstream centrist leadership are as far left and radical as one can possibly go - anything that goes farther is just too crazy to even take seriously. If that is the common wisdom of the nation and no one even tries to push the envelope any farther - by default we will simply become watered down version of the old style moderate Republicans.

One can make a choice to support policy makers because they are a lot better than the only nationally viable alternative party without making themselves a parody. One can always push the envelope farther when it has not been pushed far enough. One can do that without making themselves look ridiculous with fawning praise of our leaders. One can try to push their favored candidate - even point out faults in their opponent without going to such extremes. One is not going to win over Bernie's supporters with constant browbeating.

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Bernie "isn't impressed" by the climate change agreement signed by almost 200 countries. [View all] pnwmom Dec 2015 OP

K&R mwrguy Dec 2015 #1

Here's Bernie's press release senz Dec 2015 #45

Exactly. He didn't say "a goddamn thing about Obama." Like, for instance, pnwmom Dec 2015 #61

Oh I'd imagine he thanked him directly. senz Dec 2015 #87

We agree on the agreement then. The situation was so precarious but pnwmom Dec 2015 #91

I think it's a turning point. senz Dec 2015 #99

Flawed? What do you mean flawed? Hell, Obama put a HALT to climate change! Scuba Dec 2015 #123

Well, he made India, China, and Saudi Arabia happy, so that's another plus... progree Dec 2015 #135

Oh, India says Paris climate deal won't affect plans to double coal output, Reuters 12/14/15 progree Dec 2015 #136

Feh. Bernie's right. It doesn't go far enough. theislander Dec 2015 #2

You think he could have huffed and puffed till almost 200 countries did what he wanted? pnwmom Dec 2015 #3

Never mind a Congress full of recalcitrant Republicans, who would just LOOOVE to MADem Dec 2015 #29

Yup, the wing nuts and Bernie supporters are agreed. Obama just wasted his time. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #30

Not saying Obama/Kerry wasted their time... tex-wyo-dem Dec 2015 #41

When was the last time 200 countries agreed on something that would require sacrifice now pnwmom Dec 2015 #44

What sacrifices were agreed on at Paris? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #105

Ending reliance on fossil fuels. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #107

Ah, no, agreeing that something needs to be done isn't a sacrifice. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #109

They agreed to make the sacrifice. Now it is up to us to pressure pnwmom Dec 2015 #110

I'm not saying it's not a step forward... tex-wyo-dem Dec 2015 #138

Stating an opinion isn't huff and puff AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #118

Making the case and getting everybody else to agree are different things. yardwork Dec 2015 #125

'Hillary, who actually has experience dealing with foreign leaders, IS impressed.' beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #4

^^^ This ^^^ - Funny How Those Facts Have Become So Forgotten cantbeserious Dec 2015 #6

I guess Bernie is supposed to go along to get along. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #8

This Citizen Believes That All US Political Institutions Are Rotten To the Core cantbeserious Dec 2015 #10

+1000 senz Dec 2015 #40

Bernie Is Correct - Window Dressing Agreement - Declare Success - Continue On With Business As Usual cantbeserious Dec 2015 #5

No. It's getting almost all the countries of the world to read from the same book pnwmom Dec 2015 #9

This Citizen Believes That Is Wishful Thinking At Best cantbeserious Dec 2015 #11

Greenpeace put out a positive statement. I guess they're just wishful thinkers, too. pnwmom Dec 2015 #14

Did you even bother to read the article? Greenpeace is critical of the deal too: beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #18

Ooopsie Armstead Dec 2015 #129

LOL. Why does Bernie feel the need to shit on absolutely everything? Cali_Democrat Dec 2015 #7

Because that's what he does best. Cha Dec 2015 #22

.. Cha Dec 2015 #46

Because that's what doomsdayers usually do. leftofcool Dec 2015 #122

Master of whine, complain, groan and kvetch cosmicone Dec 2015 #132

Because Sanders is an Ideologue preaching to his choir KittyWampus Dec 2015 #139

An all or nothing kinda guy. More than double the minimum wage seabeyond Dec 2015 #12

Stating it's not good enough when it's not good enough is a a good thing. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #15

Obama gets progression forward and three decades Sanders sits in the same spot. Not so good seabeyond Dec 2015 #17

You didn't answer my question, what did Bernie set aside? beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #20

Grumpy Cat. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #13

A picture of Bernie Sanders from earlier today: Cali_Democrat Dec 2015 #16

Snerk. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #31

LOL - sure beats a phony grin. senz Dec 2015 #56

The most popular cat in the world. Kalidurga Dec 2015 #126

Hilariously both canidates agreed that it's a step forward... Lancero Dec 2015 #19

The headline writers agree that Hillary's response about how much was accomplished pnwmom Dec 2015 #23

I would, if they sniped at him for his brunt honesty. Lancero Dec 2015 #27

No, they adore him for his "brunt honesty." Even though it just makes him sound pnwmom Dec 2015 #28

So, because something is hard to do... Lancero Dec 2015 #34

How do you draw that conclusion from what I've said? pnwmom Dec 2015 #35

Agreed, the posts on this board get more absurd by the day. Broward Dec 2015 #24

Do you feel the same way about the OP pnwmom Dec 2015 #25

Because it's only treasonous when Bernie does it. Didn't you get the memo? beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #26

Agree. This cherry-picking of quotes here and there to change the context has become the norm Turn CO Blue Dec 2015 #102

Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is bad tactics mythology Dec 2015 #21

I agree with Bernie. Duppers Dec 2015 #32

Greenpeace had a more positive take on it than Bernie. pnwmom Dec 2015 #36

It's wonderful place to start.. thanks to President Obama, SOS Kerry and all the Leaders in Cha Dec 2015 #33

What's there to be impressed about, exactly? Tell me pnwmom, because i'm not seeing much Scootaloo Dec 2015 #37

I don't expect Obama-denigrators to ever be impressed with anything he does. pnwmom Dec 2015 #38

Is there anything of substance to the agreement? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #39

Greenpeace says there is. pnwmom Dec 2015 #42

Did you mean to link a different article? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #49

Obama wouldn't disagree with what Greenpeace said. pnwmom Dec 2015 #53

Can you quote Sanders saying he would have done significantly better, please? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #55

That was the clear implication, since he didn't have a word of praise for Obama. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #57

So you're making it up. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #59

No, I'm asking where is the acknowledgment and praise that the President deserves? pnwmom Dec 2015 #62

Again, did you read what you posted? He acknowledged it as a step forward Scootaloo Dec 2015 #67

He had a grudging acknowledgment that it was a step forward without a word of pnwmom Dec 2015 #76

What of significance was agreed upon? tell me Scootaloo Dec 2015 #82

Asked and answered. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #84

I don't think it was. Please, tell me Scootaloo Dec 2015 #88

He doesn't say anything about not being "impressed." senz Dec 2015 #43

He didn't say anything in praise of Obama's accomplishment, did he? pnwmom Dec 2015 #47

He called it a step forward, actually. You actually posted the quote Scootaloo Dec 2015 #51

He doesn't say anything about Obama -- and this agreement would never have pnwmom Dec 2015 #65

You've now moved your goalposts four times Scootaloo Dec 2015 #68

Who fucking cares? ibegurpard Dec 2015 #63

Thank you. A little perspective please. jhart3333 Dec 2015 #70

The public is more likely to support it if the Dems are completely unified in how they present it. pnwmom Dec 2015 #71

It's not about whether Obama was dissed or not. jhart3333 Dec 2015 #83

And presenting this positively will increase the chance of the public accepting it. And we need pnwmom Dec 2015 #85

Marketing? Marketing will save the world? Really? jhart3333 Dec 2015 #89

Marketing alone won't save the world but it CAN change minds and shift opinion. pnwmom Dec 2015 #93

If marketing is what we need then we're screwed. jhart3333 Dec 2015 #96

Greenpeace refuses to be defeatist about this. We shouldn't either. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #97

if I may ask, pnwmom... how old are you? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #103

I am 63. I have no children but I have nieces and nephews and they have children. jhart3333 Dec 2015 #112

You understand that there's nothing binding in Paris, don't you? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #90

Yes he did. He said it was a step forward. That is praise. senz Dec 2015 #69

Exactly, senz, it's right there in the op: 'While this is a step forward'. beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #50

And, sadly, too many people do the reverse -- senz Dec 2015 #72

Bernie's TOO HONEST. Damn him for speaking up for the environnment! beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #80

There's always room for improvement, but I doubt That Sanders would have gotten a better deal. Beacool Dec 2015 #48

Treaties are binding laws. This was not a treaty, it was an "agreement" Scootaloo Dec 2015 #52

OK, now tell me how Sanders would have done a better job. Beacool Dec 2015 #58

Who - aside from pnwmom - is saying he would have? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #60

I never said Bernie would have done a better job. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #73

You were claiming he said it. And then that he "implied" it. And then that you inferred it. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #86

Greenpeace has a much more positive take on it. They say it's a step forward and they're not pnwmom Dec 2015 #64

LMAO! Bernie said the EXACT SAME thing - you even copied and pasted it into the op! beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #66

Yep, we have to put people before profits. senz Dec 2015 #95

And unfortunately it seems many so-called "Progressives" are just celebrity chasers Scootaloo Dec 2015 #98

Yep. They take their eyes off the ball too easily. senz Dec 2015 #104

Hidden within in the agreement is the acceptance that we are going to run the 2c experiment. Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #140

Why are you so bitter? Nyan Dec 2015 #54

The same article was posted in another group, pnwmom Dec 2015 #75

It is possible that some of us identify more closely senz Dec 2015 #92

It is possible that some of us don't think getting change accomplished in 200 countries at once pnwmom Dec 2015 #94

I think so, too. senz Dec 2015 #101

Why couldn't he just announce, "Mission Accomplished - Globally warming is now solved!!" Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #74

Why couldn't he have said "Thank you, Mr. President for all your hard work. Now let's move forward." pnwmom Dec 2015 #78

I don't think every single speech has to open with fawning praise of the Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #100

Well, I am completely unimpressed with Bernie ... NanceGreggs Dec 2015 #77

Remember this bullshit? melman Dec 2015 #79

This thread is so full of nonsense. Ron Green Dec 2015 #81

For some reason, a supporter of his put up this same article, with the headline pnwmom Dec 2015 #108

I didn't see that post; I get it now - it's not about the weak climate document (issues), Ron Green Dec 2015 #141

Exactly. It's all partisan pie-fights all the time, and they're going to argue Turn CO Blue Dec 2015 #113

First Sanders wants Obama primaried, now he does not even have the grace to thank riversedge Dec 2015 #106

What are climate scientists saying? Because that is 1000 times more relevant. Turn CO Blue Dec 2015 #111

The NYTimes wrote an article about this today. pnwmom Dec 2015 #114

Well, some of the climate scientists agree with Bernie. longship Dec 2015 #115

So is optimism BeyondGeography Dec 2015 #124

Are you saying it goes far enough? Really? jfern Dec 2015 #116

No. Is the person who posted the same article pnwmom Dec 2015 #117

You are the one attacking Bernie. jfern Dec 2015 #119

I contrasted his reaction to that of the other two candidates. pnwmom Dec 2015 #120

Appears Obama really is playing 3D Chess. Tag the climate agreement onto TPP, and there Hoyt Dec 2015 #121

So your claim is we're going to renegotiate the TPP to include climate change? jeff47 Dec 2015 #137

Sorry you misunderstood. This climate agreement is where the detailed aspects should reside. Hoyt Dec 2015 #142

Here's an easy graphic of the direction the agreement took ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #127

One word, "non-binding." lonestarnot Dec 2015 #128

Good enough. Let's move on and feel good about ourselves, as we kill the planet Armstead Dec 2015 #130

Bernie is not impressed by anything except a 90% income tax n/t cosmicone Dec 2015 #131

So tired of Bernie's contrarian bullshit! R B Garr Dec 2015 #133

Of course president Bernie will usher in world peace... workinclasszero Dec 2015 #134