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L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
38. Looks like reply 31 covered this
Sun May 10, 2015, 12:25 PM
May 2015

If we go down the list, it is fairly accurate.

I will go down the list and show why it is fairly accurate.

1) Yes, both Sanders and Clinton are Pro-Choice. Check.

2) Yes, Sanders is for Universal Health Care. No Clinton is not. She argued for mandated health insurance in 2008. Many voted for Obama who was against the mandated insurance option in 2008 only to reverse his position once elected and go full in on HeritageCare. Check.

3) Yes, Clinton is on record as being for 'full' gun control. And Sanders record is more neutral. He has been consistent for some controls on guns but not 'full' control. He still receives an F rating from the NRA so he is definitely not a full blown 'gun nuter'. Check.

4) I am going to address both Against Big Business and Against Wall Street as they are so intimately intertwined. Sanders has been consistently opposed to the excesses of corporations and Wall Street for decades. Clinton has not. She is on record saying that pitchforks are not support for business. She was involved as SoS with drafting aspects of the TPP. She has been a board member of Walmart, one of the most predatory abusers of corporate welfare in this country. On both of those, yes, that is a big Check.

5) Sanders has consistently been against drug criminalization. Clinton since the 1990's has embraced the war on drugs.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/clinton-legalization-not-the-answer-to-the-drug-war-150696.html one such example. Sanders began speaking about legalizing marijuana as early as 2001. Again, another Check.

6) Sanders is consistent and completely congruent when it comes to money in politics and overturning Citizens United. He has refused to take corporate money. Clinton at best is incongruent only giving lip service at this time to this by stating she will over-turn it but is still taking the money. I would give this a qualified check but it is still closer to being accurate than not.

7) Sanders is definitely against the NSA surveillance state. Clinton has consistently voted for it and supported Obama's positions on it. Check again.

8) Both are in agreement on climate change. Check.

9) As far as affordable college goes, this one is definitely inaccurate and should be changed. Both Sanders and Clinton have a history of proposing legislation and ideas that would make college more affordable. Now to be fair, his idea is more socialist in nature in that he wants the government to cover it like it is in many European countries. Clinton has on the other hand wanted to engage private sector business leaders in making college education more affordable. I would prefer Sanders way, but I would not say she is against affordable education.

10) I addressed the minimum wage above. Sanders has both words and actions to back up his position. At this point in time, we have a recent tweet in support from Clinton but no specific positions or time-frames. So that one is nuanced but not inaccurate. Check.

11) Concerning the NDAA, the TPP, the Patriot Act, and the Iraq War, this is completely accurate. Sanders has been vocally consistent in his opposition to all four and has voted accordingly. Clinton has been inconsistent on the TPP (in fact rather silent) but worked on provisions during her time at State, fully supports and voted for the Iraq War, fully supports and voted for the Patriot Act renewals, and fully supports the NDAA and voted accordingly. Check, check, check and check.

12) As far as internet censorship goes, Sanders again is completely congruent in language and action including votes against such things as SOPA. Clinton has yet again been very incongruent. She has spoken out against censorship but then fully supports prosecution of Manning, Wikileaks & Asange, Snowden, and was completely behind SOPA and CISPA.
http://www.thewire.com/technology/2011/12/hillary-clinton-hero-and-villain-internet/45975/ I would say that again I would give this one a qualified check because it is still closer to being accurate than not.

13) Finally, on the issue of gay marriage. This is another that I have mixed thoughts on. It is true that Sanders has been a vocal supporter of civil rights for LGBT individuals since the 1990's. He voted against DADT and DOMA. Clinton on the other hand had to evolve and did not come out strongly for gay marriage until 2013/2014. If we are saying today, do they both support it, then yes, this one is also wrong and should be corrected. If we are saying that out of the four as far as history goes, then yes, Sanders has been for these rights as long as he has been in politics, the two GOP'ers are totally against and have been, and Clinton was and is no longer.

So, no this graphic is not a huge lie. There are only two out of the seventeen that are questionable. One needs to be changed because it is completely inaccurate, and one needs to be changed because it is nuanced but not completely inaccurate. All of the rest are dead on accurate and shows the striking differences between these two Democratic candidates. There are more differences between them than there are between Clinton and the two GOP candidates on economic policies, foreign policies, and the surveillance state.

And as I argued above, these are the types of graphics that will sway low information voters who learn about candidates from Tumblr and other social networking sites. With two minor adjustments, this would be fully and completely accurate graphic for such a purpose.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

current or not heaven05 May 2015 #1
I do think Clinton should have a couple of more checkmarks Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #2
I did not make the meme. Yea the word "truly" implies that someone is playing to the listener... L0oniX May 2015 #3
IOW who cares if Sanders supporters lie about her? MaggieD May 2015 #15
Copied from the other thread. Great Post by DUer TM99 bvar22 May 2015 #85
There is one HUGE correction to that info though... cui bono May 2015 #99
Hey, Thanks. bvar22 May 2015 #100
Hehe... cui bono May 2015 #104
Excellent response, thank you for reposting it here. sabrina 1 May 2015 #103
+a bazillion marym625 May 2015 #106
You are free to tell us where she stands on the issues that are not checked off. sabrina 1 May 2015 #102
She has been pro raising the minimum wage for a long time but... L0oniX May 2015 #50
+1 aspirant May 2015 #67
Chart is not accurate. lark May 2015 #4
"Note that some of these marks may reflect a stance or lack of one from the previous years" L0oniX May 2015 #10
This chart is complete BS MaggieD May 2015 #17
...and your post is BS unless you want to post fact links to corrections. L0oniX May 2015 #21
Not me lark May 2015 #68
Just served, awaiting Jury results. pintobean May 2015 #5
Jury results pintobean May 2015 #8
#5 here. My first jury. Couldn't believe my eyes. CharlotteVale May 2015 #9
Welcome to DU pintobean May 2015 #16
I was 6 marym625 May 2015 #26
Thanks! That one said so much about the alerter! CharlotteVale May 2015 #53
Welcome to DU! tblue May 2015 #20
Thanks! Glad to be here! CharlotteVale May 2015 #55
DU does have a limit on how many times one can alert, no? I can't believe this was put on alert. C Moon May 2015 #34
No limits. pintobean May 2015 #58
DU should consider limiting alerting if the jury consistantly finds the alerts wrong. C Moon May 2015 #98
I was Juror #4 SoapBox May 2015 #73
Pretty good jury marym625 May 2015 #107
I posted this chart last night ... aggiesal May 2015 #6
Towards the bottom you'll see me saying I'm going to x-post it. Thanks for posting it. L0oniX May 2015 #13
I copied this from the other thread. bvar22 May 2015 #84
Hillary supporters do not like this chart. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast May 2015 #7
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ L0oniX May 2015 #11
Completely unethical MaggieD May 2015 #18
You've been asked several times to stop trolling this group. smokey nj May 2015 #19
Is it trolling to point out when something is factually incorrect? Agschmid May 2015 #23
She made her point in that post there wasn't any need for her smokey nj May 2015 #25
+1 aspirant May 2015 #66
This host has absolutely NO problem Puglover May 2015 #105
Thanks Puglover smokey nj May 2015 #109
This group serves as safe haven for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Ichingcarpenter May 2015 #40
Well, I almost clydefrand May 2015 #12
This chart is BS MaggieD May 2015 #14
Good for you that you don't have to post links to the facts. L0oniX May 2015 #22
You re-posted a meme from Tumblr... Agschmid May 2015 #24
It's a meme post about Bernie's positions. You are assuming that I posted it as an attack. L0oniX May 2015 #27
Is the meme 100% accurate? Agschmid May 2015 #28
About Bernie over many years ...yes. L0oniX May 2015 #29
Sure I agree about that part. Agschmid May 2015 #30
I noted room for error. L0oniX May 2015 #31
I think it's disruptive to post something you know isn't true. Agschmid May 2015 #37
I didn't ban anyone over this. Did you alert on it? L0oniX May 2015 #41
Someone is now banned, you are a host. Agschmid May 2015 #42
This is not the first time around for that person. L0oniX May 2015 #44
Was that person correct though? Agschmid May 2015 #45
This was covered in post 38. L0oniX May 2015 #46
So as a group we banned someone because they pointed out we posted something... Agschmid May 2015 #47
It's one thing to discuss it and another thing to pop in here and just say it's BS. L0oniX May 2015 #49
Yes I also linked to that post. Agschmid May 2015 #51
I seriously doubt that was the reason for banning that one hootinholler May 2015 #65
I addressed this with you in the other GD thread TM99 May 2015 #95
We agree on most points. Agschmid May 2015 #96
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger May 2015 #97
+1 BrotherIvan May 2015 #108
Please fill me in hootinholler May 2015 #32
. Agschmid May 2015 #33
Looks like reply 31 covered this L0oniX May 2015 #38
I for the most part agree with that posts analysis. Agschmid May 2015 #43
I originally posted this image ... aggiesal May 2015 #35
If that's a reply to me... Agschmid May 2015 #39
If I recall correctly MissDeeds May 2015 #54
Bernie was not running at that point. Agschmid May 2015 #56
A lot of us chose to wait MissDeeds May 2015 #57
I jumped on the Democratic Party bandwagon. Agschmid May 2015 #59
Pffft MissDeeds May 2015 #60
+1 aspirant May 2015 #70
You might want to rethink your participation in this group. AtomicKitten May 2015 #69
No. Agschmid May 2015 #74
We'll see, won't we? AtomicKitten May 2015 #76
+1 MissDeeds May 2015 #77
* AtomicKitten May 2015 #78
So because it's favorable to our guy... Agschmid May 2015 #79
Seems people are considering you the DISTRACTION aspirant May 2015 #80
Yah cause you know... Facts. Agschmid May 2015 #81
Facts aspirant May 2015 #82
Oh this should be good MissDeeds May 2015 #83
Share? L0oniX May 2015 #90
Of course! MissDeeds May 2015 #94
Oh NO, aspirant May 2015 #71
Sorry, I thought you were a Hillary supporter ... aggiesal May 2015 #61
The only reason I call it tearing down is because it's not factually accurate. Agschmid May 2015 #63
I think a lot of DU'ers would appreciate that, myself included ... aggiesal May 2015 #64
"Even if it's 100% accurate, they will claim it as negative propaganda." Well L0oniX May 2015 #72
Except again what was posted (in its current form) isn't accurate. Agschmid May 2015 #75
It appears to be 15.5/17ths accurate or so. 91% or thereabouts. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #86
Look foolish? Get real. Every Hillary supporter already thinks we look foolish. L0oniX May 2015 #87
I don't think we have to "play dirty". Agschmid May 2015 #88
You know the money side is going to play dirty and smear Bernie. L0oniX May 2015 #89
Again I mostly agree I just don't see playing dirty as the answer to dirty tactics. Agschmid May 2015 #91
I got locked out of that thread TM99 May 2015 #92
Fair enough. Agschmid May 2015 #93
Two I would add: "Against Defense Budget Increases", "Supports Palestinian Self-determination" I hate liars May 2015 #36
^^^this^^^ L0oniX May 2015 #52
I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious May 2015 #48
Ditto colsohlibgal May 2015 #62
the chart does not make the others look bad. guillaumeb May 2015 #101
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