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The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
52. You Are Using This To Trot Out Your Old Proposal, Sir
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 12:16 AM
Apr 2020

Which we have crossed words over before.

You want to strike a deal by which 'Bernie' supporters receive a proportion of delegates you feel is appropriate to what you feel is the actual balance of voters in the Democratic Party, whatever the actual votes may be.

You suppose that forty percent are what you call 'progressive' and sixty percent are what you call 'moderate' and you think delegates should be apportioned accordingly.

First, understand being out-voted three to two in a democratic body entitles the minority to nothing at all. Anything short of a majority has only what influence the majority may choose to grant it. That, Sir, actually is Democracy, as it has always been practiced, and still is practiced today. No proposal, no plank, no change of rules, not the slightest motion, which is opposed by sixty percent of convention delegates, can pass or ought to be passed.

Second, the only way the forty percent could attempt getting anything they have not the votes to carry, and the majority is in no mood to grant, is by some threat the majority feels it must acquiesce to. Disruption on the floor, or withholding of votes in the general election, whether by calving off into a third party, or by voting instead for the opposing party's candidates, or by sitting on their hands and not voting at all. As a matter of curiousity, Sir, which do you think the forty percent ought to choose among these threats, to bend the majority to their will?

Third, though it must remain a matter of opinion, it certainly seems to me your gauging of factional strength within the Party wildly overstates the strength of the faction you support. That would best be judged by total vote tallies, not by delegate strength, as a fair number of votes do not result in delegates being alloted --- candidates failing to achieve a one vote in six threshold in a primary, or receiving votes after they have ceased standing for the nomination. It is quite fair to take as the voting strength of the 'moderate' faction the total of all primary votes cast for anyone but Sanders. After all, the Sanders campaign regarded all opponents as moderates, as figures who were nowhere near so 'progressive' as was 'Bernie', and that they proved themselves in the final analysis to be mere tools wielded by the 'Democratic Establishment', which prevailed on them to cease active candidacy to the detriment of Sanders' campaign. Voters supporting Sen. Warren may well consider themselves to the left of the typical moderate, but support for Sen. Warren included active rejection of 'Bernie' as a standard bearer for progressive policies. As matters have worked out, her bloc of voters has been pretty solid for Mr. Biden. Taking all this together, roughly seventy percent of Democratic primary voters cast their ballots against Sanders, and this is a good deal closer to the seventy-five percent 'moderate' twenty-five percent 'progressive' split you proclaim unfair to your 'progressive' faction.

Fourth, if you define 'progressive' as people who would stick with allegiance to 'Bernie' through thick and thin, the twenty-five to thirty percent who voted for Sanders in primaries is likely a considerable overstatement of 'progressive' strength. The largest portion of Sanders' supporters seem likely to be quite willing to swing behind the candidate who prevailed in the primary, and opened the convention with a solid majority of delegates. They are not likely to support disruption by Sanders delegates, or other actions they think likely to do harm to the effort to turf out the cheap thug Trump in the general election.

Understand, having two fifths of delegates does not mean two fifths of the decisions go your way. Any more than having a quarter of the delegates means a quarter of the decisions go your way. Whether you have two fifths of the delegates or one quarter of the delegates, the majority of delegates gets its way on any question its members are serious about prevailing on, and it may well be their will to prevail on every single thing which comes to the floor. And that actually is Democracy, Sir, as it has been practiced for ages.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Weekend at Bernies 3? n/t brewens Apr 2020 #1
ROFL Sloumeau Apr 2020 #35
This Is Getting Awfully Silly, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #2
I was thinking more along the lines of... TwilightZone Apr 2020 #8
You May Notice The Edit, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #13
I was referencing... TwilightZone Apr 2020 #16
I'll bite, it will be sad and tragic and then what will happen is what was going to happen... Thomas Hurt Apr 2020 #3
Pure bullshit SCantiGOP Apr 2020 #4
Actually from my sampling of the Bernie supporters I have met Mr.Bill Apr 2020 #5
Pretty much the same here. n/t nolawarlock Apr 2020 #73
I think some people believe Bernie has more influence in this election than he actually does. n/t zackymilly Apr 2020 #6
Sanders is irrelevant. He has lost. The primary is over. Regardless of Sanders present actions. LizBeth Apr 2020 #7
More important: Would Jane have to mow all 3 lawns by herself? n/t zackymilly Apr 2020 #9
It's not the amount of houses that counts Polybius Apr 2020 #18
bernie is always criticizing other people who have loads of money lol msongs Apr 2020 #21
Besides Mayor Pete and possibly Tulsi, everyone running had more than him Polybius Apr 2020 #22
Tell that to a homeless guy living in his car. LakeArenal Apr 2020 #24
Sure, that's awful but what is Bernie supposed to do? Polybius Apr 2020 #26
He won't be president because he lost the primary. And his policies would only help if he won the Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #34
Obviously Polybius Apr 2020 #39
He has never attracted AA voters...he had four years to remedy this...and yet apparently a plan was Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #47
Geezus. No Bernie should not sell his house. LakeArenal Apr 2020 #37
zackymilly started it Polybius Apr 2020 #40
You asked me what's he supposed to do. You. LakeArenal Apr 2020 #56
And I'll still ask Polybius Apr 2020 #63
Mayor Pete is not as wealthy as Sanders is... Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #36
Um, no kidding, I just said that Polybius Apr 2020 #41
My mistake. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #45
$600,000 True Blue American Apr 2020 #43
Sing it!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2020 #28
Biden wasn't that wealthy when he was in the Senate or Vice President. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #38
Are you for real? ahoysrcsm Apr 2020 #64
Real as they get Polybius Apr 2020 #68
The primary has been over for a while and so this will make little difference Gothmog Apr 2020 #10
The primary isn't over. Don1 Apr 2020 #12
In the real world the primary is over Gothmog Apr 2020 #14
The race is over. Sanders has literally a 0% chance of winning the nomination. TwilightZone Apr 2020 #17
No primary goes all the way to the convention...it is over. Mathematically Sanders can't win. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #30
You won't get an answer... don't have one. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2020 #31
He got three answers. TwilightZone Apr 2020 #33
I did not get any good answers. Don1 Apr 2020 #42
If you seek agreement, I fear you will have to answer yourself. JK Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #48
In case you get hungry while you're waiting. lapucelle Apr 2020 #53
True dat!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2020 #55
You don't want answers. TwilightZone Apr 2020 #61
You Got Answers You Do Not Want To Engage, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #66
This message was self-deleted by its author Squinch Apr 2020 #79
Even though Sanders is at risk... Dopers_Greed Apr 2020 #11
sanders faces a far higher risk due to his heart attack Gothmog Apr 2020 #15
Bazinga! NurseJackie Apr 2020 #19
He should suspend his campaign for a week? ucrdem Apr 2020 #20
That's terrible. Don1 Apr 2020 #25
Biden has moved on to the general election Gothmog Apr 2020 #46
True but he still has his little pile of brickbats ucrdem Apr 2020 #59
He might actually drop out in that event treestar Apr 2020 #83
Something like that would be inevitable. ucrdem Apr 2020 #84
Governor Cuomo becomes President! That woman from Michigan becomes VP! OverBurn Apr 2020 #23
"That woman" you mean Governor Gretchen Whitmer? LakeArenal Apr 2020 #29
That woman True Blue American Apr 2020 #44
You offer a false premise with hypothetical numbers. In order to have influence,you must win. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #27
Nah. Just a daisy-chain of the same bs. LakeArenal Apr 2020 #32
Exactly and lets face it...platforms are pretty much meaningless in my opinion these days. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #49
For me... Just beat trump. LakeArenal Apr 2020 #57
Only the Russians believe a US President would necessarily consider the party platform as canon. Marcuse Apr 2020 #50
That is very true which is why they wanted Trump to change the GOP platform. And he did. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #51
You Are Using This To Trot Out Your Old Proposal, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #52
What the actual fuck? I just googled this shit, it's a great way to answer...questions ismnotwasm Apr 2020 #54
Did you just find another Don the con? William769 Apr 2020 #58
Apparently ismnotwasm Apr 2020 #60
What should happen to the Primary? That's your question. MineralMan Apr 2020 #62
If anything, you should self delete. ahoysrcsm Apr 2020 #65
The primaries should still take place, if possible. Blue_true Apr 2020 #67
Another dark, macabre and morbid post la-trucker Apr 2020 #69
what a circlejerk mikelgb Apr 2020 #70
Knock it the fuck off. nt Codeine Apr 2020 #71
Turn it into a party? n/t nolawarlock Apr 2020 #72
Just stop this nonsense. You've received many substantive answers to your Vulture Posts... Hekate Apr 2020 #74
Hear Hear, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #75
No not really. Don1 Apr 2020 #76
Stop this nonsense was the best answer you deserve. MrsCoffee Apr 2020 #80
No it isn't. Don1 Apr 2020 #81
Well... Mike Nelson Apr 2020 #77
Many would be sad. But it would make no political difference. Squinch Apr 2020 #78
As I said in the mirror thread, treestar Apr 2020 #82
Democrats have a socially distanced funeral ceremony, and a Hortensis Apr 2020 #85
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