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UTUSN

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Member since: 2001
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Progressive ideas/reforms can be abused and needing reform, too: Talking the Recall

As that history says, the Progressive Era initiatives/reforms were intended for "direct Democracy," ways to correct/sidestep legislatures and elections, to fix things done wrong via the institutional channels. Fine.

But what pops up in California (do the other states do it the same way?) is an abuse of the Recall - not just for incompetence, criminality, corruption - but for partisan overturning elections and/or personal ambition (am looking at you/AHhhnuld).

So can our governing systems be reformed, fixed, improved - keeping the good parts - without doing things by collapse and revolution, please?

*** And my personal peeve: Caucuses. They violate the Secret Ballot, suppress those introverts who don't want to blab in public, expose personal views to neighbors/possible co-workers/possible bosses/strangers. Where do those fit in the Progressive reforms?

*********QUOTE********

https://lao.ca.gov › BallotAnalysis › Initiative
In 1911, California voters approved the constitutional processes of initiative, referendum, and recall. Through these processes, voters can adopt a change in law (an initiative), disapprove a law passed by the Legislature (a referendum), or remove an elected official from office (a recall).Oct 8, 2019

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era
Progressive Era

.... Many Progressives sought to enable the citizenry to rule more directly and circumvent machines, bosses and professional politicians. The institution of the initiative and referendums made it possible to pass laws without the involvement of the legislature, while the recall allowed for the removal of corrupt or under-performing officials, and the direct primary let people democratically nominate candidates, avoiding the professionally dominated conventions. Thanks to the efforts of Oregon State Representative William S. U'Ren and his Direct Legislation League, voters in Oregon overwhelmingly approved a ballot measure in 1902 that created the initiative and referendum processes for citizens to directly introduce or approve proposed laws or amendments to the state constitution, making Oregon the first state to adopt such a system. U'Ren also helped in the passage of an amendment in 1908 that gave voters power to recall elected officials, and would go on to establish, at the state level, popular election of U.S. Senators and the first presidential primary in the United States. In 1911, California governor Hiram Johnson established the Oregon System of "Initiative, Referendum, and Recall" in his state, viewing them as good influences for citizen participation against the historic influence of large corporations on state lawmakers.[105] These Progressive reforms were soon replicated in other states, including Idaho, Washington, and Wisconsin, and today roughly half of U.S. states have initiative, referendum and recall provisions in their state constitutions.[106] ....

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Am Self-deleting. The whole O.P. is here:

O.K., not fishing for pity or "hero" worship. Just another like all of us, bad situation

The closest cousins in my growing up were a dude my age and the two sisters. Their family group moved to Florida in the '60s and when my uncle had 30 days' vacation every year they would stay with us.

Long story but the closest cousin to me was (call her "Jane" ). So she and I kept in touch by phone for decades, until her various personal problems led to our break-up. She said something to me that was maliciously offensive, untrue, and ugly. So no contact for about the past six years.

Jane and her family are non-political, but her tendencies are of the wingnut variety. Jane had a headstrong and fraught life history.

So a week or so ago the word got to me that Jane was in the hospital with covid. I knew/suspected that she had not been vaxxed, and she wasn't. Later word was that she was refusing hospitalization, predictably. She did go home and a visiting nurse told her family she should be in the hospital.

My only discussion about all this was with my elderly sister who is Passive Aggressive and prays her Catholic head off over everything, but won't *do* anything. Today I suggested my calling Jane, saying I knew she would take my call, that I would not press hard, would just feel things out. She said that we should just let Jane's family, who are not adept, handle things their own way.

Tonight, fwiw, things "clarified" for me to go ahead and call Jane. I first thought I should call the sister for "permission." Then I decided I don't need permission and just called.

Jane sounded weak and tired. I told her I was just calling to know how she is and she told me. I said that I love her, my sister loves her, another girl cousin she's close to loves her, and another old cousin loves her. She said she knows, that "They've all been driving me crazy." I said I wouldn't keep her on the line and she thanked me.

I then called her sister to tell her and that I had not told Jane what do do. She thanked me.

The legal remedies are out there but our whole family is full of Passive Resisters. So that's that.



Just me, but there's a problem with STEWART all right.

When I first became aware of him I took it at face value that he was one of us, loved it when he zapped the wingnuts, which was most of the time, and gave a pass as his being a comedian when he zapped one of ours, which was little of the time. I never watched more than some minutes here and there, since, except for SNL's Weekend Update, political satire (Onion, Daily Show, BEE) is predictable and does the Fox thing of telling fans what they already know and want to hear.

My first confusion about him was when he guested on CNN's Crossfire, where the format was fierce debate between clear Left and Right, and STEWART ranted that this show was hurting the country. And soon after that Crossfire was cancelled. Yes, division that is now polarization is a problem, but clarity in taking a stand on principles appealed to me, so STEWART made me wary of him as to where he was coming from.

But years later, what tore it for me was when Glen BecKKK staged a stunt of a wingnut rally in D.C. that was supposed to be about "unity" and pseudo-religious and nationalist pandering, and then STEWART decided to do one supposedly from the Left. Both of those circuses left their own adherents dissatisfied, since their fans wanted their own Left-Right red meat and both dudes put on some kind of semi-kumbaya thing. STEWART's was a namby pamby part Renaissance fair thing, with blowing bubbles and the Myth Buster nerds. When it was over, the much maligned here Bill MAHER said, "If you're going to have an event it needs to be *about* something."

So he was then on my No-Like list, and I started wishing that COLBERT would cut the STEWART cord. And then STEWART took it to another level by "reaching out" to O'REILLY, guesting and hosting with each other, which meant to me that STEWART was something of a Third Way dupe, since it was obvious that the wingnuts are scorched earth types who will *NEVER* do anything constructive and that O'LOOFAH was playing him.

Is he a "Problem Solver caucus," Blue Dog, MANCHIN, Third Way - what?!

So, that's why STEWART is dead to me. I shouldn't do the Debbie Downer thing in threads I disagree with, so just disregard if you disagree with my disagreement.








Like many DUers I've lost near ones to covid. This one to Fundie anti-vax/mask-ism.

I just lost a relative to a NUTCASE fundamentalist wingnut cult. So be it. My Buddhist coping mechanism is to NOT TAKE IT PERSONALLY, like the universe is NOT PERSONAL. So, goodbye.

I'm not even going to get into the death of a nearest one.

She’s a WHACK-O “religious” nut quoting the Bible. I sent her this “parable” from 1980s comedian on the CARSON show, Pete BARBUTTI:

“In desert dry Arizona (or desert dry wherever), a rare extensive rain event was prognosticated. The word went out for everybody to evacuate and most people did, and the National Guard went by in Jeeps with bullhorns asking the stragglers or those who couldn’t get out on their own to come with them in the Jeeps. And an old, ornery Believer on his porch with his Bible yelled at them, “I won’t go, I believe in God and God will protect me.”

So it began to rain and the water came up to the level of the porch and the National Guard came by in boats and implored him to come with them, and the old man with his Bible said, (same thing).

And The rain continued and the water rose to the level of the roof and the old man with his Bible was on the roof and the National Guard came by in helicopters and implored him to be lifted up, and the old man with his Bible said, (same thing).

So the water kept rising and the old man with his Bible drowned. And he woke up in Heaven and sitting on a cloud, thoroughly PISSED. And God passed by and the old man with his Bible said to him, “Hey! You!” And God said, “Are you talking to me?” And the old man with his Bible said, “I *believed* in you and look what happened to me!”

And God said, “I sent you a JEEP. I sent you a BOAT. I sent you a HELICOPTER!”

The relative is an ADEPT at quoting theological clap trap. Knows “parables” and has a high class Catholic university degree. Will she make the connection to the simple “God helps those who help themselves”? No, she prefers to nit pick on the numbers of angels on pin points.
And she’s off my relations list.

She sent a crapload of “scriptural” quotes and said that she exercises her *CHOICE* not to be offended. Huh, she loves her “choice.” As an exemplary Lib, I respect for others to have their beliefs AND expect mine to be RESPECTED.








Turns out BIDEN ain't *WOKE* for wingnuts & media - it's *THEM*!

This is about wingnuts, so am using the Wingnut definition/interpretation of "woke", which seemed to be something like "namby-pamby".

All these recent years one of their main beefs against Left has been how "woke" we are, their replacing "politically correct" with Woke as a hate word.

So they spent these past 7 months floundering around in their attempting to pin *something*/anything on BIDEN, their frustration being that he was low key and not contentious enough for them to engage against.

So then they got what they immediately tagged as "the Saigon Moment."

And not only the predictable Wingnuts, but the supposedly "Lib" media reporters have been going to town about how all the Saigon scenes are tatooed on BIDEN'S face.

All the "reporting" being chock full of anecdotal vignettes - ignoring the mounting evacuation .

****** Never mind the mounting number of statements from Afghanistan veterans (American) saying there was never going to be any other end game, or that the whole culture was built on ancient patronage and the cash crop and that our presence there was the only thing holding the colony together.

Or a cosmopolitan. internationally and war savvy commentator saying that this is not a society party with RSVPs about whether or how to Exit. Like when one of our Desert Storm general dudes told the media that war is not a video game.

****** So look who's WOKE now.






The whipping of Joe BIDEN has commenced and won't diminish - from enemies, allies, & native wingnuts

ABC News is elbowing the Faux Propaganda Network to the swarming on BIDEN – hand wringing about how people *feel* over Afghanistan and a trillion bucks down the drain, and oh how there was no planning to evacuate everybody and how military brass was so insightful against BIDEN’s decision (yeah-right). ABC started out with the blaming and shaming since Sunday morning, let it fester all day, and then interrupted the evening game shows for a whole half hour of blaming, shaming, and “feelings”.

The wingnuts will Benghazi this a thousand times over, doing the “finger pointing” thing that W. Shrub was preemptively for himself against, at least through the next three years. How often over 20 years did they even mention Afghanistan, by the bye? They will be drowning out the real issues:

1) Who got us in there but then flipped over to a totally different random country to invade?
2) Afghanistan has a history of being unsuccessfully invaded – the real comparison to Vietnam.
3) If we had focused on the initial attack and then BIN LADEN and Al Quaida, then GOT OUT, we would have done fine.
4) Since we didn’t do #3, this ending now was going to be the same at any of the many opportune times to get out before this.
5) But the real ROOT CAUSE is our overall, over-arching foreign policy of trying to REINVENT countries, attempting to impose democracy where it’s counter to their own cultures – going back to Vietnam and Iraq, butting in with Latin countries, but really back to Woodrow WILSON’s “aggressive moral diplomacy.”
6) But even more rootful is American parochialism, ignorance about the rest of the world, and short term vision – which is why we have to depend for our spying on more international/cosmopolitan countries.
7) So what will allies and enemies alike think about our getting out now? That we leave others in a lurch? Yes, but more than that, that Americans are naïve.

*** Yeah, as is always said, they will whip us anyway no matter what. Doesn't stop us from having answers ready to bat them back down.





Notes from The U. of YouTube: Who knew, MAHER hearts ROGAN, ROGAN hearts LENO

O.K., am taking a break from my Major of Roman (especially), Greek, Egyptian histories. Ms Mary BEARD and Metatron have signed off.

So this session has been fave Dave and Conan clips, but then the whole NBC LENO f-over of Conan linked up. And then an entire chain linking of the Conan-LENO thing went on.

Universally, everybody is on Conan's team. So when a suggested link came up on ROGAN-LENO, I was enticed. And SUSPECTED.

And sure enough, there was ROGAN totally kissing up to LENO. Totally sycophantic. And then I remembered when MAHER guested with ROGAN, and MAHER looked, like for an hour-plus, like he was lovingly enthralled with ROGAN, and am talking subservience, ADORATION, intimidated. So MAHER found his Libertarian master.

I'm coming from a contrarian place, that is, like to monitor/Opposition-Research, prefer to monitor the enemy instead of following MY OWN who tell me what I already know, agree with, and want to hear. I don't believe that hearing THE ENEMY will WASH MY BRAIN. I want to know what THEY are up to - tha kewl saying, "Keep friends close, enemies closer."

So I monitor MAHER, some/little ROGAN (the parts where he's open to independent thought, not wingnut whacks).

And ROGAN with LENO was sick.






On obnoxiousness, partisanship, the Democratic *agenda*

This is in reaction to the media yakkers who ragged on the NY Attorney General for not announcing immediate charges on CUOMO upon reading the results of the investigation.

Whether he resigns, is impeached, charged, sued, whatever - he is *SO* over. He can't dare to hope that Dems will go to the mat to defend him. It’s not about blind partisanship: When a Democrat goes wrong, cash in the freezer or whatever, he forfeits the Democratic label.

The lesson from defending Bill CLINTON was that NOBODY as an individual is worth more than the Democratic AGENDA. We spent tons of energy on him that was taken away from should have been devoted to working on the AGENDA. It is so hard to win the chance to advance the agenda that it is a waste to put everything on hold, set everything aside, stifle the precious chance just to "save" one individual.

That said, just personal obnoxiousness ought to be a chargeable offense. The mob, street dialect/accent and entitled brutishness are dead giveaways - whether they come from any ideological parts of the spectrum. My local radio wingnut yakker, who tries to reach out to convert me, thought he was bucking me up when Ed SCHULTZ was yelling supposedly "Liberal" things on MSNBC - thinking that I would be happy to have somebody for my side to match LIMBAUGH. What little I heard of SCHULTZ was screaming obnoxiousness, which repulsed me just as much as from LIMBAUGH. Or Hugo CHAVEZ or three hour rants from CASTRO. Whether Drumpf or CUOMO.

Same goes for the "religious" types. Occasionally the clicker lands on some "inspired" fool screaming his fool head off, supposedly about "God." Can't click away fast enough. Maybe it’s true that the media yakkers don’t believe what they yap about, just do it for the cash or their own self-love.






Questions about Breakout instances - What is the protocol?

* Are Fully Vaxed supposed to keep testing if in mixed settings (not close proximity, masked & unmasked).

* Are "mild" cases dismissed as cold/allergies and going unnoticed/dismissed?

* What's the treatment plan and duration?

* Will the Breakout yield a "boosted" immunity, like with the proposed 3rd boosters?

* Can re-infections occur after a Breakout?

*** ON EDIT: What about companion animals - dogs/cats can catch






*Huzzah* to the Cubans rising up in Cuba and a word to the post-Exiles here

* First of all, congratulations and solidarity to the Cubans in Cuba standing up for themselves, THERE. Finally, after all these years of their suppression.

* Next, to the Exiles protesting here: Consider making it real by somehow *MATERIALIZING* your support physically over THERE. Here's the deal: We Dems/Libs were solid in support of the revolution against the Wingnut dictator BATISTA and welcomed CASTRO and GUEVARRA, even glorified them. But soon thereafter they showed who they were - and forget the "Communism" B.S. - who they were were murderers and fortune stealers for themselves in Swiss banks. Then the First Generation of Exiles here, who were wingnuts in their own country to start with, turned against JFK and the Democratic party over the Bay of Pigs, and became willing tools for the old CIA and our wingnuts here. Then followed endless pains in the neck to us Dems from both sides - the CASTRO provocations (e.g., the Mariel dump, pokes in our eyes with USSR) and the Exile-CIA generation going full Repuke here. Not to mention that the Cubans got perks with immigration policies that other nationalities (say, Mexico) did not get. Plus, such benefits as Cuban-Americans advancing with lightning speed for top political offices (U.S. Senators), leap frogging over other minorities (say, Mexican-Americans).

* So, now that it's safer and your compatriots in Cuba are risking their all, perhaps you might consider going back, this time using your now more refined Right Wing doctrines in ways that are not oppressively dictatorial. I personally will advocate to support you over THERE.

***** After all, that's where your heart has always been, so from this Bleeding Heart Liberal I just want to bless your heart!

***** Here's a thought: Let's send RUBIO and CRUZ over there to spearhead our aid!





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