Pastor gets tazered

[Joanne98]

Run time: 10:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQofU5npMbI   Posted on YouTube: April 25, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: April 26, 2009 By DU Member: Joanne98 Views on DU: 6203

 

I remember a long time ago we ON THE LEFT fought this whole "check point" crap when they were first trying to make it "acceptable". I don't remember any Pastors helping us back them.

When this guy starts researching how our 4th amendment rights got thrown in the toilet. He's going to be surprised to find out that it was destroyed by RIGHT WING POLITICIANS THAT CHRISTIANS VOTED INTO OFFICE!

If they want to help stop this I'm happy but I'm not holding my breath.

He needs to got to the ACLU. Maybe he'll understand what they do after that.

[MADem]

1. He's pissed because he doesn't think his caucasian looks make him suspicious.

I honestly do think that's why he's so "affronted." That searching and stuff is for the BROWN and BLACK guys, not me!! I'm a PASTOR! And EUROPEAN-looking, to boot!

Too bad, pal. If the dog "alerts" those cops have probable cause.

Be interesting to see how he behaved while being questioned ....on the border between Yuma and Mexico.

I don't think cops beat up Xtian pastors for shits and giggles. I think maybe he was behaving in a manner that suggested he was guilty in some fashion of doing something that he doesn't want someone to know about. Wonder what the purpose of his trip was?

[DeSwiss]

2. It's ironic that you said "pissed...."

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo3o4nfiG7A">Pastor Steven L. Anderson "Pisseth Against the Wall"

[MADem]

3. Real men sit down and keep the room nice and clean!

And read the newspaper...and have a nice crap, too!

That really is fascinating. It makes me think that the cops have a case.

I'd love to see the tape from the police vehicles.

[demwing]

8. Why does this make you think they have a case?

Because the pastor is tired of taking abuse from the government? Because he refuses to "Sit Down" when he believes he should be standing up?

This has nothing to do with pissing styles. His sermon had to do with standing up to totalinarian authorities.

[MADem]

12. His sermon is STRANGE and so is he. Like I said, I would like to see the tape of the arrest.

Did you watch his pissing sermon? He's missing a card or two from that deck of his.

[demwing]

29. TAZE HIM, kick his ass, and search his car.

We can't have strange people driving around being strange and all, regardless of their innocence.

[MADem]

30. I'll wait for the judge. See--no rushing to judgment here!

When people are "strange" behind the wheel of a vehicle, though, there's sometimes alcohol or drugs involved. And that IS a public safety issue.

[Seldona]

124. There was nothing in his system or car.

Fail.

[MADem]

125. Show me where he got a blood test or a urinalysis. You can't. FAIL. NT

[Seldona]

126. Show me where he was charged with ANYTHING related to the above.

Possession? Driving under the influence? Intent to deliver? Anything?

Fail.

[MADem]

127. I never said that he was "charged with anything related to the above." FAIL. nt

[Seldona]

128. Then what is your point?

Cops should be able to drag people from their cars and beat them senseless for no reason? Because he KNEW he was clean and wanted to cop to prove his accusations, knowing the cop was just messing with him because he didn't like his attitude?

Despite what you seem to think, we do have privacy laws in this country that are supposed to protect people from from being assaulted for no reason other than disrespect of cop.

I've had cop pull me over on blatant lies. It is nothing new. Thankfully I have a lawyer on retainer, so the nazi type shit they were pulling here doesn't happen. I love the look on their faces when I hand over my license, with my lawyers card on top. They tend to be MUCH more polite then.

[MADem]

129. Straw man. The police had a reason for arresting the guy.

He refused to follow a lawful--not illegal, lawful--order of a duly authorized officer of the USG. He refused to move his car out of the road when asked, too. That has NOTHING to do with the search issue, either.

We don't have privacy laws at roadblocks--you're wrong. The Supremes have ruled on this matter. Do some reading.

This idiot makes a hobby out of harassing cops. He goes out of his way to give them shit.

Glad you "have a lawyer on retainer." Because those big bad cops, why, they're just out to get you, aren't they?

:rofl: Because you're so cool, and they're so....mean. Because ....they're cops. So they're the BAAAAAAD guys! :rofl:

Your self-importance is rather...telling.

[ooglymoogly]

46. Amen...nt

[cboy4]

91. ...

:thumbsup:

[bluebellbaby]

5. You sound like a customs agent!

You assume that if you attempt to assert your Constitutional rights your guilty of something...wow!

[MADem]

10. I am not one of those. Not by a long shot.

I think the guy was confrontational. I also think he thinks that dogs are trained to bark hysterically and scratch your paint if they find anything suspicious. The ones I've seen just give a glance and sit quietly. The act of sitting is how they "alert."

I am not asssuming that an "attempt to assert your Constitutional rights" means "your (sic) guilty of something...wow!"

I do think, though, if you act like a belligerent asshole, the cops are going to wonder if you're trying to conceal something. Behavior that is outside the norm does make one wonder. This guy wasn't even opening his window to speak with the police, which is why they had to break the glass.

If the dog did, in fact, alert, then the police did have probable cause. For all we know he could have been out in the desert burying a body, hence, the "human smell." Or maybe his kids were playing in the trunk earlier in the day, who knows?

The guy does seem like a confrontational jerk. He also seems a bit unhinged with his "pissing" sermons, too.

I look as 'different' as the next person, but when I get stopped by the police I don't aggravate them by getting in their face about my rights and "Whatcha gonna do about it?" There are ways to calmly assert one's rights while being polite about it, and as I said, I would like to see the tape from the cops on this arrest. If he was overly excited or angered after being stopped, they may have suspected drug use or an alcohol consumption issue.

I've been stopped by the state police/border patrol near (not at, near/inland from the border maybe five or seven miles) borders at those sort of ad hoc stops. I've never been asked where I was going, but I was asked once where I was coming from (I had been in a town on this side of the border). I showed my license, got nosy and asked "Who are you looking for? Criminals, illegals or terrists?" and was promptly sent on my way. And this was during a period of time when I was on the TSA Watch List.

Another time I got bagged at one of those ad hoc border stops and to make matters worse, I was exceeding the speed limit by a fair amount. I didn't give them any shit and they told me to slow down, but didn't give me a ticket. All I did in that instance was show my license and speak in a civil tone.

I just wonder if there's more here than meets the eye. There may well be.

[bluebellbaby]

15. Okay, but where in the Constitution does it say I have to be nice to Authority?

First, I agree...they have the gun and the badge...and if you treat them with respect, you most likely will be treated the same way in return...and when I've been stopped for speeding...I'm absolutely respectful...and only once have I not been...but that's another story...

But, as a freedom loving Constitutionalist...where does it say that I must show respect to anyone in authority?

And if I don't then I'm guilty of something?

See...this is where Americans have been "brainwashed" into believe that "black is white" or "blue is orange"...

These people...in "authorative positions" are there because "we the people" put them there...and the twist is that we have to show them respect out of civility maybe...

And the reason they didn't give you a ticket...THEY CAN'T...they don't have the authority or power to do so...they are Custom Agents...not State Police...who are given the authority to enforce the State's traffic laws...

They can...however...hold you...under a "citizens arrest" and then they must call the Police...

Like if you drive back from a party in Mexico drunk...they can hold you and then the local Police are called...

This is been my whole point...

They are not Police...

They are agents of a Federal Gov't...

[MADem]

24. Where does it say "authority" has to be nice to us, either? It's simple civility.

I don't have to impress myself or anyone else by being a "toughie" with the cops or treating them in a denigrating fashion. It doesn't make me more or less of a Constitutionalist to be polite to someone who puts their life on the line every day they go to work. It's simply a two way street is all I am saying.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear--it was the state cop with the BP (I have never seen them set up all alone down the highways on the US/Canada border, always with a statie in the four or five times I've encountered them) who told me I was speeding--he absolutely had authority to give me a ticket, but he didn't. He had a little radar gun, and I was going about 81 on the downhill, too! I don't know if it was because I was pleasant or because they were looking for someone else, but I got waved on.

[bluebellbaby]

60. It doesn't but they "The Police, etc" should remember this!

They derive their authority from us..."we the people"...not the other way around...

And maybe they should keep this in mind when they "enforce" the law "for the people"...not against them!

[MADem]

65. I encourage you to reread this whole thread.

And have a look at the links, too.

The State Police arrested this guy, not the border patrol. They arrested him because the BP called for help because the guy was being combative. Both agencies called him that.

He never filed a complaint against either agency. That's probably the most telling bit of all. He just put up his YOUTUBE whine. If you have a case, you file a complaint.

Then, after you've reviewed everything here, have a look at his videos--the Jew hating, the yelling at the guy who protested his insults about Obama, the Pissing one...and even look on the net at his "Jesus wore pants" rant. The guy is playing with less than a full deck--IMO.

It would not surprise me that such a vocal and aggressive person would fail to understand his duties as a citizen, and make assumptions about interacting with authorized representatives that are incorrect. He probably could have been gone in five minutes if he rolled down his window and said "Good Evening." When the BP says "Are you a US citizen?" or "May I see your license?" he says "Yes" and is on his way in short order. Instead, he apparently rolled up (or never rolled down) his window and refused to move from the roadway when directed by the BP. He sat there in his car blocking the road and refusing to cooperate. He didn't have to agree to a search, but he fucked up when they told him to move and he didn't. Then, he fucked up some more when he failed to obey the DPS guys--but that's a different story altogether. They never would have even showed up if he'd not been paranoid with the BP, IMO.

However, like I said, I'll wait for the judge.

[bluebellbaby]

72. Thanks for the suggestions...I did re-read this thread...but

I have no need or desire to watch or even need to be aware of this American's religious positions...doesn't matter...

The issue is simple...

For thirty years Americans have been "trained" and beaten into submission to the State...

As for him not filing a complaint...we are not his attorney...even though he said his attorney said he had a case...maybe the attorney looked up the case law on this very subject and found that he really doesn't have a case...

But it wouldn't stop me either...I would be on Youtube too...anywhere I could...to let Americans know what really is going on in this Nazi-like America we've come to live in...

Americans are starting to wake up to our Constitution and what it actually says...even though we are all a bit late to the party on this one...most of our Constitutionally Guaranteed rights have been wiped away through Supreme Court decisions that if they were handed down 200 years ago...Americans would be in the streets revolting again...creating yet another government...

It's a sad state of affairs when you wake up and realize you are not free anymore..."for the public good"...

And on this very subject...the Supreme Court was wrong...look up the dissenting opinions...

They warned of this decision being used just like this American has now experienced...

The orginal decision was based on "facts that do not bear the full light of day"...

Being beaten and having his personal property destroyed was not even considered as an outcome of their decision...so on this point he may genuinely have a case...extreme and excessive force against a citizen...


As for my duties as a "citizen"...my duties are to the original Constitution defending myself and my family against these blantant attacks on my liberty...


Where did you get "...They never would have even showed up if he'd not been paranoid with the BP, IMO..." from?

You really are now just making things up...

God bless ya!

[MADem]

83. Oh, bullshit. Utter bullshit.

You believe a man who complains on YOUTUBE, but doesn't file a complaint. Whose LAWYERS don't file a complaint. People with a "case" file a complaint. People who don't, rally the masses on YOUTUBE and try to bullshit their way out of misconduct.

You believe a man who is a Jewhating racist, and who hates Obama.

A man who bullies people IN HIS CHURCH for disagreeing with him, who tells them to get the hell out and not let the door hit them--IN CHURCH.

You believe him, a Jewhating guy who wishes our president ill, yet you haven't even heard the other side. Isn't THAT special?

I know all I need to know about you. I will tell you, frankly, that I think you are not to be believed. I also think you have an agenda that is incongruent with the agenda of my political party.

I'm not making a goddamned thing up, either, tootsie--and if you clicked on the links and read the sources, you'd see that. I've backed up everything I've said. You, OTOH, have just spouted mindless, unquestioning support for the Jewhating angry, aggressive Pastor.

It does make me wonder where your priorities and political loyalties lie. I would be dishonest if I did not acknowledge that.

[bluebellbaby]

92. You've absolutely missed my point...is this intentional to start a fight?

What have I said that shouldn't be believed...defending the Constitution...

You know nothing of me except your own hatred!

I think I've stated clearly my loyalties are with the Democratically Created Constitution.

[MADem]

104. He's not "defending the Constitution." He has a duty to follow the

lawful orders of a police officer. His rights were not being violated when he was stopped at that roadblock, even if you don't happen to like that. Your false premise is tiresome.

It would take too much energy to "hate" someone I don't even know--and have no desire to know, either. You're just not that important.

[bluebellbaby]

97. You've bought into the spin when you say...

"... People with a "case" file a complaint. People who don't, rally the masses on YOUTUBE and try to bullshit their way out of misconduct..."


This kind of thinking is why we're no longer free...you actually agree that someone asserting their Constitutional rights when confronted with Police State Tactics is..."misconduct"...

I must agree...currently...due to misguided and poor legal thinking from the Supreme Court has taken away the 4th Amendment guarantees...thus negating any legal case he would have had...say 35 years ago, he would have had a case...but...this doesn't change the fact that we once had that right and we should get it back...

That's what I've been defending here...nothing more...or less...

[MADem]

103. More utter bullshit. This guy is not a shrinking violet.

Go have a look at some of his "lectures" and then get back to us. If he'd behaved normally, he probably would have spent two seconds at that site. His paranoid behavior is what helped get him in this fix. Maybe he's like Ted Haggard, and has a meth problem?

[quakerboy]

19. I agree it would be interesting to have tape

I think that might be a good first step. All law enforcement actions should be taped. Big brother on the government, for their own protection. If every encounter they have with anyone is taped, they might get in a greater mindset of responsibility, and they also have the security of knowing that the camera will tell the truth every time, so noone can accuse them of things they did not do.

I am someone who has never had any problems with the police. Every encounter I have ever had was quite polite and they were generally helpful and polite. But I have seen and heard of all to many incidences where that has not been true. Police and LE officials are human, and like all humans are subject to excesses and mob/fear mentality, and also the the corrupting influence of having power, particularly now that that power seems to have less checks and balances.

The difference is that if your average person off the street stops a car, breaks their car window, tazes them, and steps on their face because they claim they believe they may have drugs or be under the influence, we as a society would move heaven and earth to track down and prosecute the hell out of the person who did it. But when a LE official does the same, we wave it off because it must be justified, the recipient of the trouble must have been confrontational and a jerk because a person wearing a uniform would never succumb to the baser instincts of life.

As to his confontationality and jerkitude, I have noticed a clear trend among humans, most of whom have a touch of the passive aggressive. Most of us tend to be more confrontational when returned to the safety of our group than when directly faced with big scary men, particularly those with guns and uniforms. In the aftermath, if that had happened to me, I guarantee that I would be PO'd about it as well, as would most people reading this.

[MADem]

25. I'll bet there is tape. Most law enforcement vehicles have that set up now.

It works even when they're stopped, too.

[ooglymoogly]

49. So the fact that there was nothing found does not bother you in the least

If we arrested all the hair brained idiots in the country there would be no one left. well no pugs left.

[MADem]

56. Do you know that for a certainty? Maybe he swallowed his meth while he was

locked in the car, for all you know. Maybe it was coke, and he swallowed that. I don't know. You don't either.

You weren't there, now, were you? The Border Patrol/"customs agents" weren't the ones who arrested him, either. So that crap isn't floating. It was DPS who did that job.

We know what HE tells us he was charged with. WE know his side of the story. We don't know the story from the perspective of the BP, and we only have a preliminary statement from the state police who arrested him. They are still investigating, but they have issued comments which describe this fruitcake as "combative" and failing to obey a lawful order (unrelated to a search of his vehicle). It also notes that he took his case to "YOUTUBE" and didn't file a complaint with the agencies in question:

April 17th statement from DPS
- For Immediate Release -
Friday, April 17, 2009

Arizona Department of Public Safety Statement Concerning the Arrest of Steven L. Anderson

Arrest took place Tuesday, April 14, 2009 at a U.S. Border Patrol Checkpoint

The U.S. Border Patrol asked the Arizona Department of Public Safety to assist their Officers with a combative motorist who refused to cooperate at a checkpoint in the westbound lanes of Interstate 8. Steven L. Anderson, the combative motorist, was arrested by a DPS Officer for resisting a lawful order during the incident and booked into the Yuma County Jail.

Mr. Anderson never filed a complaint with DPS concerning his arrest but instead made a You-Tube video that featured his version of the events of that day.

An investigation by the Arizona Department of Public Safety's Professional Standards Bureau is underway. DPS is looking at current agency policies and procedures that officers must comply with when requested by any agency to respond to checkpoints.

In this particular instance DPS will look at our Officer's response and actions. We will offer no further comment on this incident until the investigation has been concluded.

*It should be noted that in 1976, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of Federal checkpoints near border areas to enforce laws prohibiting illegal immigration. This U.S. Border Patrol checkpoint along Interstate 8 is in compliance with federal law.*

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/centralsouthernarizona/tucson/story/Tempe-pastor-Border-Patrol-beat-him-at-checkpoint/FYxzzCRcnUehq5uY8nZXHQ.cspx

We also know that he hates Jews and Barack Obama, thinks Jesus wore pants, and has a fixation with pissing standing up. We also know he likes to yell and be confrontational. All this is documented in his charming little sermons.

But no, we're to assume that he's Mister Sweetness and Light at a traffic stop?

Ohhhkay....

I'll wait for the judge. He'd better hope he doesn't get a Jewish one. That might cause him to start shrieking "AntiChrist!!" at his or her honor...

[ooglymoogly]

62. My contention here is not that I am in favor of this koinky doink

It is that police actions against citizens have gotten way out of hand when no one is thought to be looking and that is well documented. I admit I did not see any of the Utube stuff (which is disgusting) before my first post. But that does not excuse police brutality which again has gotten way out of hand when no one is watching which is a portent of things to come if we do not scream loudly enough.

[MADem]

68. I think there's a slight possibility that the police description of this guy

as "combative" could be factual.

I'm betting the BP and the DPS have some pretty good video. That's probably why Pastor Hatefest hasn't filed a complaint against either agency.

If they were as "out of line" as he claims, you'd think his lawyers would be screaming from the rooftops and filing suit after suit. Instead, all we have is Reverend Jewhater's diatribe on YOUTUBE.

But, like I said, I'll wait for the judge.

[demwing]

7. Your response here is disgusting

So you don't think cops beat Christian pastors for shits and giggles? Do you believe that cops beat up ANYONE for shits and giggles?

Oh I see, its only because the pastor is white, and therefore, according to you, he must be racist.

This Pastor explained that he resisted questioning, and that the dogs gave NO indication of an alert. Based solely on his testimony, the man was subject to an overt example of the police abusing their authority. If an African American pastor was treated like this, would you be so tough on him, or so dismissively question his motives?

Perhaps there are circumstances that aren't being revealed here. But that's a "perhaps" that - so far - isn't supported by any facts.

[MADem]

13. Gee, your response is disgusting, too--disgustingly LAZY in the logic department.

Where did you get the idea that because I don't think these cops beat up a pastor for shits/giggles, that I don't believe that any cop ever beat anyone up for shits and/or giggles? Why did you even bother to make that gratuitous leap? To suggest that oh, I'm some kinda meanie?

Now, you're asking me to believe this flaky guy's (and have a look at his flaky sermons) report. Sorry, I'd believe the fucking dog before I'd take this guy's word without a little more evidence.

You've just made the pastor, in your post, an expert on how dogs "alert." How is a guy going to see a dog, who isn't as high as the back of the trunk when standing, sit to alert on his trunk? Answer--he isn't going to see it. Unless he gets out of the car, which this guy didn't. He rolled up the windows (or wouldn't roll them down--that's not totally clear yet) and sat there in the middle of the road in his car. See, that's why the cops had to break the windows.

"Perhaps" there is a lot more going on than meets the eye. I'm simply not ready to convict the cops of being the bad guys quite yet--you go ahead and do that if you'd like, but I generally like to hear both sides first. Like I said, they've got better things to do than beat up on pastors for shits and/or giggles. The judge will sort it out, I'm sure.

[bluebellbaby]

18. Gotta respect your willingness to think clearly here!

But when you make derogatory remarks like "flaky sermon"...you show a bias in your thoughts...why brand his sermon "flaky"...and since when did our Customs Agents have the authority to destroy private property?

Their intent appears obvious...they were pissed that their illegal and unconstitutional powers were questioned...and they wanted to impress upon this pastor their power "to do whatever they wanted"...without "due process"..since when does one not have the right or responsibility to question people in power?

Oh...the Police State thing again...I keep forgetting...

As for him "sitting in the middle of the road"...he was ordered to by the Customs agents...sounds like circular logic...actually circular thinking...no logic need be applied...

[MADem]

31. His sermon IS flaky, that's why I characterized it as such. I've been in

many houses of worship, from mosques to temples to chapels and cathedrals, and I've never seen some asshole in a men's warehouse suit talk about PISSING from the pulpit (not much of a pulpit, that, either--looked more like a school lectern in a rental storefront).

Now, maybe in your house of worship, they talk about pissing and shitting all the live-long day, and that's supposed to inspire people to live their lives in the manner of their favored prophet, I don't really know. I will tell you, though, that's not the norm. I don't think Jesus's lessons were all about pissing, and I don't care if this guy is using the translation ordered by some Protestant King to make his "let's mix a little church with state" case. So yeah--the guy is flaky. Hyperbolic. I'd go so far as to call him NUTSO.

Again, I will not say anyone's "intent is obvious"--because I wasn't there. I will, though, give the cops the benefit of the doubt until the judge says otherwise.

He was ordered by the customs agent to get out of the car so they could search it after the dog alerted on it, and he refused to comply. That's why they had to break the window. Follow along...that's HIS version, BTW.

[ooglymoogly]

51. The only thing you have got right in your twisted logic

is that he is an idiot, however that fact is meaningless to the whole picture as presented.

[MADem]

52. He is a racist and a hatemonger. He uses incendiary and vile, violent language.

Yet you assume he was a meek little lamb with the big, mean old BP.

I'll wait for the judge. You rush to judgment all you want. Why don't you go hang out with your hero? He sounds like a real charmer.

If anyone's logic is twisted, to say nothing of your manners, it's yours. You're the one calling me names and acting like a jerk, here.

[bluebellbaby]

63. Where did he prove he was a racist?

Now you'r just making things up to support your apparent hatred of white ministers...

I haven't watched his sermon...listened to it...but you wouldn't be upset if it happened to you?

I know I would be screaming it from atop every mountain...

Until Americans wake up...

[MADem]

69. In his VIDEOS. Click on them, instead of proudly saying you didn't bother.

He called Jews the ANTICHRIST.

Is that racist enough for you? I have a problem with guys like that. You're saying you don't? How interesting.

You really need to stop shooting off your keyboard and click the links and listen to the full discussion, rather than jumping in and making a fool of yourself because you haven't bothered to do the work required to participate intelligently.

It makes you look like a disruptor when you behave that way. Even more so when you ADMIT that you haven't watched his sermons after I point them out to you. They are, by the way, disgusting, crazed, angry, hateful diatribes.

Follow along, click the links, watch the videos, or don't bother being an annoyance. You're the one who needs to wake up, dear. You're defending a "combative" hatemonger and making the very false assumption that this guy is without sin, when he's clearly not.

[bluebellbaby]

74. I repeat...I could care less what he personal religious beliefs are!

The original post I did watch...that's what I'm focused on...and to now put words into my mouth is lunacy...

Implying that I should or should not have an opinion on this American's beliefs...even if I don't agree with them...is not the issue...

To accuse me of being a disruptor...you have gone "hog wild with accusations" against anyone who doesn't hate this American like you do...

I'm not and have never defended what he may or may not have said to his congregation...I don't care...and nether should you...

That "crap" is immaterial...

You then accuse me of assuming "...that this guy is without sin..."...I never said that...and I don't care if he is or isn't without sin...

I assume only this...1st and foremost...the man is an AMERICAN...just like myself!

And Constitutionally Speaking...we are supposedly equal..."created with certain inalienable rights" that our Government cannot breach...


You are stirring up hatred against this man just like you accuse him of doing...

As for me not doing the work "...to participate intellectually..." is so far from the issue that was originally presented...you scare me...

Those reasons you claim against this American is why we are no longer free...it's easy to confuse people..."Hate the messenger"....and forget what the message was/is!

The very essence of being free is the right to speak freely...even if I don't agree with anything you say...I will go to hell and back for your right to say it!

And you should agree with this...forget all the crap about his sermons...they aren't on trial here... save your hatred of his positions for another thread...create one on the subjects you don't agree with...BUT the actions of our Police State are WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED...OR SO I THOUGHT!

[MADem]

80. You wanted to know where he was a racist. I told you. Then you accused me of lying about it.

I provided you proof, and you suggest that being a racist is "being free?" That his racist conduct equates to his "right to speak freely?"

You're either being disruptive, clueless, or your outing yourself. Which is it?

This guy is a Jew hating asshole--and you say I'm "stirring up hatred against this man ???" You're damn right I am--because racism and Jew baiting are not progressive values. We don't "tolerate" that kind of intolerance. We don't like gay baiting, race baiting, and gender discrimination either.

I got news for ya....it ain't a party platform, or a progressive view, to "tolerate" Jew haters. You might be new to this game and "unaware," but we don't take kindly to that "Jews are the antiChrist" shit. Just in case you're confused. And I suspect you might be.

This man is a crazy racist and an angry pig. He behaves in an aggressive manner IN CHURCH. How might we suppose he behaves on the street?

You need to get a grip, do a little reading before you talk out your ass, and grow the hell up. What's being "discussed" here is the totality of the incident--and you have no authority--or credibility, I might add--to draw the parameters for me. So just stop doing so. In fact, if you're smart, you'll quit while you're ahead, before you unfurl your true colors for all to see.

[bluebellbaby]

93. Your motives are clear you hate!

Yov've violated the rules of this board by going off topic...and then you throw insults at me...who's motives are now clear!

Tolorating free speach...if you don't like our freedoms then you should leave...

You've accused me of being a child, defending a racist, jew baiting, being intellectually incompetent then you accuse me of having some other "devious" motives other than then one's I've stated...defending the Constitution...soon you'll be saying that when and if the ACLU defends this guy that they should be boycotted or worse shut down...then you make up reasons to avoid the issue at hand...

The POLICE STATE WE LIVE IN!

Defending the Constitution is so UNDEMOCRATIC...!

[MADem]

105. You clearly haven't read the rules. There is no "rule" against going OT, and FWIW

I didn't do that.

The topic is this bust at the roadblock. What I don't tolerate is HATE SPEECH, tootsie. Not "free" speech--HATE SPEECH. And if you do tolerate that, you have a huge honking problem.

I didn't "accuse" you of any of those things, but I will "accuse" you of being unable to comprehend the written word.

You aren't "defending the Constitution." You're defending a racist based soley on his hearsay, and convicting the officers who had to deal with him based on no evidence whatsoever. My honest opinion of you is quite low. I think you're anything but "democratic" if you're so willing to exonerate a hating preacher and convict a couple of cops without any evidence at all.

The thing I love about this country, though, is that you'll never be a judge.

[bluebellbaby]

113. "Tootsie!" Insult someone else please!

Hearsay ( ) n. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor...

What this pastor said is not hearsay but his first-hand account of what he experienced...based soley on the evidence shown in the clip...absolutely...I do defend this American...not anything else!

I would defend you...to believe and say whatever you want to whomever you want but you don't afford this same Constitutional right to this pastor...

That, thank god, is not your choice...

And to repeat that I'm defending "hate speech...and convicting a couple of cops..."...is a position you created in your mind!

[MADem]

114. It's what he SAID he experienced. That doesn't make it true...tootsie.

He's giving us his version of events, not "the truth." The judge will get at that.

Not you.

You continue to defend this guy--you just said he told us "what he experienced" when it's becoming apparent he's leaving some shit out of his story. But hey, whatever. You're defending a guy who uses hate speech, and you're not giving the same consideration to the other side. That's not in my mind--it's what you're doing--toots.

[bluebellbaby]

117. Stop INSULTING ME WITH "TOOSTIE"...

You are not my grandfather or father or mother...go be condescending to someone else...please...

I never said his version was the truth...I did say...it's "his truth"...what he experienced...then you say..."its hearsay"...when it clearly is not...then you say he's hiding something, are you now psychic or God...to know this...again...you make things up!

AND for the record...I did state that there are two sides to everything...you just want to keep up an argument...

The "other side" is the Police or Customs...and they don't need me to defend them...they have a wonderful Union that does a hell of a job...I know...my sister was the President of her Chapter of the NTEU...and through her actions she stopped alot of *ush's crap...but that's another story...

Defending "...a guy who uses hate speech"... is derogatory and completely "in your own mind" and I've tried to reiterate my position of defending the Constitutional right of against state sponsered searches and seizures...but you then go off on another wild accusatory and ficticious note against me.

Fist, don't assume you know me...

Second, don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about..

Third, stop making things up about me!

[MADem]

120. Ahh, changing your words, are ya? You said what you said.

Thank Allah I'm unrelated to you--I'd hate the responsibility.

Have a nice police state day, Bright Eyes!

[bluebellbaby]

121. God Bless Ya! I have no need to change anything...least of all my mind!

I just pointed out to you what I've said...you might have missed it...

God Bless:hug:

[bluebellbaby]

96. I suggested being free is being racist?

Let's clear this up...

I don't care what he says to his congregation...even if it's evil crap...by my standards...

Defending his right to say it under our Constitution is "outing myself"...or worse "disruptive"...or more personally I'm "clueless"...

You've gone so far off base here...you've wasted so much time on "researching" this guy and his life...did you research the Customs agents that destroyed his personal property then beat him...

How many complaints do these Customs Agents have against them...how many complaints were "brushed off" and swept under the rug?

We don't know do we...

There are two sides to everything...but from what you've posted if we don't agree...then we are "talking out our asses"!

[MADem]

106. There's a difference between hate speech and free speech.

The fact that you don't see the difference is what "outs" you.

Are you a fan of the Westboro Baptist Church's "free speech" too? If you are, you're in the wrong church here.

Again, you make false claims. The "custom agents" didn't lay a hand on him. Not one finger.

They called the State Police (DPS), when the guy refused to move his car out of the middle of the road for secondary screening. They asked for assistance with a "combative" guy at the roadblock.

The state police made the arrest--not those "customs agents" you're crying about. They also described him as combative.

The customs agents have NO complaints filed against them by this nutcase. We DO know that.

Gee, it helps to know what you're talking about when you get all righteous. You plainly didn't check that block.

[demwing]

21. I'll take the Pastor's word

especially since they found nothing when they eventually searched his car without his permission.

And I make "the leap" because you made the leap, when YOU accused this man of racism, with zero evidence to support the accusation, all seemingly based on his own skin color, though now I'm beginning to believe that there's religious bias at work as well.

[MADem]

22. I'll take the judge's word. But knock yourself out!

People who always convict before the trial yet have the brass to call themselves "progressive" always crack me up.

Did you not listen to the guy's words on that tape? He was AFFRONTED at even being stopped! Why, they only do that to "suspicious types"--and of course, HE wasn't one of those!

His whole approach was one of privilege. I don't think he felt privileged because of the car he was driving.

And yeah, I am biased about Baptist pastors who give sermons about pissing. I think they're fucking nuts, actually. I also think people who cheerlead them and their stupid pissing comments aren't on my top ten hit parade either....but that's just me.

[demwing]

28. And yet you are ready to convict HIM because of unrelated beliefs

I couldn't care less whether he pisses up or pisses down, or what he preaches to his congregation. Those matters have nothing to do with the case at hand. Why it bothers you, regarding this case, is your own issue to work on.

In 1976 the SCOTUS ruled that such checkpoints don't violate your 4th ammendment, or if they do, they don't violate it much.

What a load of shit.

I hope the guy takes it to the Supremes so the point is revisited, leading to a new ruling. It's time for US vs Martinez-Fuerte to fall.

[MADem]

32. I "convict" him of being flaky, but like I have said, I WILL wait for the judge.

I'd say you're the one who's rushing to judgment, here, not me. And I'd also say your excessive "concern" about what you think "bothers" me (FWIW nothing bothers me, at least not on the internets) is perhaps skewed by your own "issues."

I think the cops have a case, but we will have to let the judge decide. I can wait.

I'm sure if there were staties and BP there, there's lots of footage from the car-cams. I'm guessing The Pissing Pastor won't take this very far, but time will tell.

[bluebellbaby]

61. You are really this upset?

"People who always convict before the trial yet have the brass to call themselves "progressive" always crack me up."

Then you say you will wait for the judge...?

You are confusing...

[MADem]

70. I was talking about YOU. You convict the cops before the trial.

And post on a progressive forum where the requirements for membership are that you must share our Democratic/progressive values.

I'm the one waiting for the judge--you're ready to hang the border patrol and the DPS, while earnestly defending the racist hatemonger preacher.

[bluebellbaby]

75. I never convicted the Police...not once...I did point out that

Our Country is a Police State...

As for sharing "your version" of Democratic/progessive values...what crap!

I don't share your hatred...so I don't have Democrat values?

Wow...me defending Our Constituion is sooooo undemocratic....!!!!!!!

[MADem]

82. Our country is not a police state. That's your opinion. You want to try living in a police state

sometime. I have. You have no idea whatsoever. Not even a hint of a clue.

You defend a Jew baiting racist. Those are not progressive values. And you know it. Is that why you do it?

You aren't defending the Constitution when you convict the cops before a trial. That's the very OPPOSITE of what you claim to be.

I'm the one who said I will wait for the judge. That just wasn't 'on' for you, apparently.

[bluebellbaby]

95. We do live in a Police State...there are posts here that go years back!

That point this fact out very clearly...one of the many reasons I joined this group was because I saw the same thing...

The post I refer to was a picture...

The person showed an old black and white picture of Nazi Germany's parade of troops and then it showed pictures of our Police lined up...just like the Nazi's...

Then the caption was..."any questions"...

I don't remember who posted it...


Twice now you accused me of convicting the cops before a trial...when or where did I convict them...waiting for a judge, as you claim...isn't going to happen if the guy didn't file a complaint as you have pointed out...

So your own argument is full of logical mistakes...you say he didn't file a complaint...then you post evidence proving this...then you say "I'll wait for the judge"...

Then you go on saying that because of his personal religious beliefs...we should all hate him...

So much time is wasted on hatred...

I don't buy into it...but I will state for your record here...If this guy does spew hatred in his sermons...then I'm glad I don't go to his church...

And if I did and he did it in front of me...I would leave...

But this is still off the topic at hand...

[MADem]

108. No, we do not live in a police state.

I never said "we should all hate him." You're making that shit up because you have no argument.

You're the one who won't wait for the judge, and you've got the stones to try to (ineffectively) lecture me? That's rich.

You are obtuse and uninformed. I suspect you also don't understand IRONY. When you use the "Nazi" argument, too, you've lost.

It's an internet rule.

You might want to read the DU rules, just to be sure you're a good fit here. If you joined this forum based solely on a picture of Nazis you saw here, you might not fully appreciate, or be a bit surprised by, progressive values. See, we like the state for lots of things--social safety nets, like unemployment, social security, health care for the indigent, community care for the poor and aged, law enforcement so we might be safe in our homes, maintenance of roads and streetlights--that kind of thing. The state's not the enemy. The state is US.

[bluebellbaby]

115. Yes we do!

"internet rule"...where's the book...PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE!

I loose nothing by pointing out the similarities...real similarities between what Nazism was and what we are becoming...!!!

And I've made nothing up...you hate this pastor...and his sermons...then you get mad because I won't or don't care what his says to people I don't know or will ever meet or will ever affect my life...then you say I should join some baptist church...what craziness...

If he were to move to my "neck of the woods" and tried his sermons here...he would be run out of town...

Repeating that "you won't wait for the judge" is not going to happen if he didn't file a complaint as you've posted early...now will it...your point is moot and meaningless...

I've been here over 4 years...and I had to "rejoin" after I couldn't log on last year...rarely do I post anything...I worked too much to have time more than just to read what people were saying...

The Constitutional rights of American Citizens being beaten into the ground...that...I will post on...!

As for progessive ideals...you claim:

"See, we like the state for lots of things--social safety nets, like unemployment, social security, health care for the indigent, community care for the poor and aged, law enforcement so we might be safe in our homes, maintenance of roads and streetlights--that kind of thing. The state's not the enemy. The state is US."

When or where did I ever say I didn't agree with a evolving civil society taking care of its own? Again...you're making things up!

You then accuse me of being "obtuse and uninformed"...

HOW ARROGANT!

Really...get over yourself!

[MADem]

116. It's link, not book. And go to google and find the US CONSTITUTION.

There's nothing in that document that says the police are empowered to "rule" over you or any other citizen.

I don't "accuse" you of being obtuse and uninformed. Those were declarative statements. They were based on what you posted.

You have reading issues. I just can't continue to debate with someone who has such serious comprehension shortfalls. It's a wasted exercise.

You have a nice day in your fantasy police state, now!

[bluebellbaby]

118. Insulting me AGAIN!

You really need to read the Constitution...you've been bashing this pastor and his "free speech" rights...then say it's okay for citizens to be beaten into the ground and have their personal property destroyed...again...this goes against the CONSTITUTION...

[MADem]

119. You insult yourself every time you post. Have a nice POLICE STATE day, now! nt

[MADem]

47. I need to add to my remarks.

This guy thinks Jews are the antichrist. Is that racist enough for you?

He thinks Obama is evil and he wishes him ill.

I've posted links to this shit elsewhere in this thread. He makes no secret of his fucked-up, aggressive, pee-standing-up, Jesus wore pants views.

This man is a crazed, rightwing fuckstick. He's also very angry when he preaches at his "church" (which looks like a cheap room in a poor storefront). It wouldn't surprise me if some of his loudmouth anger came out when he stopped at that checkpoint.

For all we know, he could have been coming home from his meth connection. It's not unheard of that so-called Baptist preachers are into meth, after all.

Of course, like I said, I'll wait for the judge.

[SkyDaddy7]

27. I have worked in the Criminal Justice Arena...

Cops will say a dog alerts any time they want to just to have probable cause when a person refuses a search. Now, I do agree this slightly odd Pastor could never have seen anything sitting in his car with the windows rolled up.

I have seen several pushes in Georgia to force cops to video tape dog searches so that there is proof the dog alerted...This would prevent cops from just saying the dog alerted to circumvent the refusal to search. I have never heard of a single case where a person refuses a search, the dogs are called to the location and do not alert and the person was free to go...IT DOES NOT HAPPEN, EVER! And this is wrong! It does not matter what you do, at least in Georgia, if the cops ask to search your car and you refuse they will eventually search it...Depending on how you take having your rights violated will determine whether you end up getting your ass kicked, tazed, and taken to jail.

I would love to hear examples that goes against what I have said as I think this is a very bad problem. Just like when the US Supreme Court said it was unconstitutional to set up road blocks to look for drugs. So, most, if not all, states passed seat belt laws and began road blocks as "seat belt checks". However, you can bet your ass there will be multiple dogs at these "seat belt checks". Cops get around almost all of the rights you have at traffic stops. You do what they say regardless and you probably wont have a problem, if not, prepare to get tazed, car search, go to jail.

I would like to see more info on this case.

[MADem]

36. If there was a car with a camera behind the pissing pastor's vehicle, that may have

been caught on tape, as it were.

He'd better hope he doesn't get a Jewish judge who gets a kick out of YOUTUBE!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkiN-2SeYqE

I don't think that "bloodthirsty" and "wicked" Barack Obama, who "hates the preacher" (according to this flaky dipshit) will be inviting him to the WH anytime soon, either!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqXtACXUeY&feature=channel

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluebellbaby]

4. This is so disgusting! Just when you thought you were free again!

Nope...not since 1976 and the Supreme Court Decision in UNITED STATES v. MARTINEZ-FUERTE, 428 U.S. 543 (1976), have we been free...

This decision gives the Police "authority" to stop anyone anywhere and ask "paper's please"...just like in those old black and white movies of WWII and Nazi Germany...where people lived in fear...

Americans rolled over then and allowed it...why are we so upset now...

I must say I was only 12 at the time...a bit young to know or protest!

But today...If Americans saw this on the "nightly news" maybe they would demand a new Constitutional Convention.

[MADem]

37. Maybe he treated the cops like he treated this guy......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdtJwg_8aG8&feature=related

[Pharaoh]

79. I agree MADem

I cannot imagine trying to defend this guy, he's a bit psycho...

[bluebellbaby]

6. I must add this...they are not Police...they are Custom "Agents"

Big difference...the Customs and Border Patrol have not been given Police Authority...

If they have...I missed it...

So..."under Color Of Law" they are asserting authority they don't have...

[ooglymoogly]

45. One of the few sane comments here.

does not matter that this guy is an insane idiot; If what was presented here is true, it was totally wrong and unfortunately widespread.

[MADem]

50. First, you're calling DUers INSANE when you make comments like that.

Which is not on. You need to correct yourself.

Second, how nice that you've bothered to drag out the conditional "IF" after you threw shit at me all over this thread without giving me that courtesy.

You know nothing for fact, but you've spent a great deal of time acting like you do.

[ooglymoogly]

54. another crappy analysis of a post to put in your scarecrow garden.

[MADem]

58. No, you're being rude and you know it. You're being rude because it's the only way you know how to

argue. You can only conduct yourself in an antisocial fashion on the internet for reasons known only to you.

Try reading the DU rules. You're breaking them.

[bluebellbaby]

76. I'm calling DUers INSANE when I point out a fact of law...

Customs Agents are not and never have been given the authority of the Police...they have the power...in some instances...that go beyond the Police...but they are not Police Officers...They are agents...

How is this "throwing shit at you"...

Are you crazy?

[MADem]

87. If you bothered to read this thread--and you didn't--you would appreciate that your "fact" is shit

in this instance.

Why? The "Customs agents" did NOT ARREST HIM.

Did you get that? Must I repeat it?

The CUSTOMS AGENTS DID NOT ARREST HIM.

The State Police did. So, as the kids say, that's a great big "FAIL" for you.

If anyone's "crazy" here, it's not me. You might want to read those DU rules, dear. You just keep digging your hole.

[bluebellbaby]

94. You should educate yourself and re-read my posts...you've lost it!

The fact that Customs agents are not the police is fact...the fact that the Customs Agents "stopped" a law abiding American Citizen on a public highway for no other reason than because he was there then they destroyed his private property then beat him into the ground, then humilated him for no other reason than his refusal to do what he believed was his Constitutionally Guaranteed Rights to be free...free from these kinds of Nazi-like tactics...

The fact that the State Police arrested him is not the issue...

You like to confuse facts with your hatred!


Then you say I fail because I don't agree with you...

Then you accuse me of not reading the DU Rules...I think you need to review them yourself...you keep going off topic...

[MADem]

109. You're making that shit up. You are also factually incorrect in other assertions.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the "customs agents" (border patrol, to people who aren't kooks) have the right to set up roadblocks. Get over that shit. Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean it does not exist.

The "customs agents" didn't destroy anything. They didn't TOUCH the guy. Again, you're talking out your ass.

The arrest was made by the State Police. NOT the "customs agents."

And using the "hatred" word over and over again does not turn your absurd bullshit into ice cream.

You haven't read the DU rules. That's not an accusation. If you had, you'd hopefully know them and follow them like most people here do. Unless of coure, you have difficulty processing and retaining information?

[MADem]

48. The state police made the arrest. He apparently didn't listen to them, either. nt

[trthnd4jstc]

9. We live in a Fascist Country. End the Tyranny! Make the Police, Border Patrol, and Customs abide

by the Constitution of the US. End Fascism. Arrest every fascist in government. Freedom and Justice for All!

[lostnotforgotten]

11. If This Incident Gets The Right Outraged At The Loss Of Rights Due To The Patriot Act

That will be good thing!

[Joanne98]

23. The Patriot Act AND Homeland Security that was THEIR idea.

They better not blame us or we'll TAZE THEM TOO!

[lostnotforgotten]

26. That's The Point Exactly, They Have Become Victims Of Their Own Policies

eom

[burning rain]

33. Mostly they only get worked up if a Democratic president's in office.

Government agents were "jackbooted thugs" when Clinton was in office, but they became "heroes" under W.

[lostnotforgotten]

35. Can't Have It Both Ways - A Lesson The Right Needs To Learn

eom

[JDPriestly]

14. Finally, a Christian who "gets it." Christianity and torture are incompatible.

Yes, Christians have tortured. We all know about the Spanish Inquisition and other instances of torture.

Jesus refused to answer questions.

Mark 15:1-5

15:1 -
Early R743 in the morning the chief priests with the elders and scribes and the whole Council, F266 R744 immediately held a consultation; and binding Jesus, they led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate.


15:2 -
Pilate R745 questioned Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And He *answered him, "{It R746 is as} you say."


15:3 -
The chief priests {began} to accuse Him harshly. F267


15:4 -
Then Pilate questioned Him again, saying, "Do You not answer? See how many charges they bring against You!"


15:5 -
But Jesus made R747 no further answer; so Pilate was amazed.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Mark+15%3A1-5&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=Mark+15%3A1-5&fp=_rpp-4zAm3I

Compare the commentary at http://atheism.about.com/od/biblegospelofmark/a/mark15a.htm

Matthew

24 When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man's blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”

25 All the people answered, “Let his blood be on us and on our children!”

26 Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.

The Soldiers Mock Jesus
27 Then the governor's soldiers took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers around him. 28 They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, 29 and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand and knelt in front of him and mocked him. “Hail, king of the Jews!” they said. 30 They spit on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. 31 After they had mocked him, they took off the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him.

The Crucifixion
32 As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. 33 They came to a place called Golgotha (which means The Place of the Skull). 34 There they offered Jesus wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it. 35 When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. <1>36 And sitting down, they kept watch over him there. 37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him:|THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS. 38 Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40 and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!”

41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, “but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” 44 In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Death of Jesus
45 From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi,Some manuscripts Eli, Eli lama sabachthani?”–which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”<2>

47 When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He's calling Elijah.”

48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49 The rest said, “Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him.”

50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

https://secure.ebible.com/bible/Matt.27.24-Matt.27.50

Christians should oppose torture if for no other reason than in memory of the agony of Jesus who was tortured and ridiculed before he was killed.

Torture is incompatible with Christian beliefs.

Further, Jesus taught "I was in prison and you visited me."

From Matthew 25:33-46
Then the king will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.'
37 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink?
38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?'
40 And the king will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.'
41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
44 Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?'
45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

http://gbgm-umc.org/cam/mt25.html

I don't want to hear any claims about the U.S. being a Christian nation from people who apologize for torture.

What would Jesus do?

[MADem]

38. You think that guy gets it? You obviously haven't looked at his "shit" on YOUTUBE.

here's an excerpt--do your own search, though, and watch his sermons about pissing against the wall and how Jesus wore pants and Jews are the antichrist and Obama is evil--those are real elucidative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdtJwg_8aG8&feature=related

[JDPriestly]

89. Maybe a Christian who "gets it" is a Christian who has been tasered for no good reason.

Maybe this will turn out to be this guy's spiritual rebirth. He does seem to be a bit of a nut case, but my point remains: Torture is incompatible with the teachings and life of Jesus. I just don't believe someone can claim to be a Christian and authorize torture.

[MADem]

110. Well, this guy is more worried about Jesus wearing pants than "salvation."

He thinks Jews are the antichrist. He's done this shit before--challenge the cops and then make a scene about it--it's his schtick, apparently. He posts their "offenses" on the internet, too, but the one coming off like an ass in the video is him.

He is a political scold, and he uses his warped definition of "religion" to go on and on about his views of the government.

He calls himself a baptist, but he's not affiliated with any "mother church." He's a freelancer working out of some nondescript building.

[tomm2thumbs]

16. he should join Westboro Baptist Church - they are full of lawyers - they can be friends

[MADem]

40. The God Hates Fags club? They're on the same page as this flake, philosophically. NT

[safeinOhio]

17. Anyone stopped by the police

Never, ever say constitutional rights or any amendment. Always say " my lawyer has instructed me not to say anything until he is present". I've been around lots of cops. If you mention constitutional rights, they roll their eyes, every time. If you mention YOUR lawyer, you get their attention. Cops hate the constitution, unless they are the ones in trouble, then they are the first to scream them. I hate to generalize, but in this case I'm afraid it is almost universal.

[suzanner]

20. MADem, u r so wrong

He said the dog did nothing to indicate probable cause. That with the mocking, well, I hope he takes those gulag officers to the cleaners. It's time to stop this. Go look up what the gulag did at the RNC.

[MADem]

39. No I am not wrong. You tell me how he could even SEE what the dog did

vis a vis his TRUNK while sitting in his car, that he refused to leave when asked to step out by the BP. What, was the dog the size of a small elephant? A standing german shepherd sized dog (and it could have been a beagle, who knows? I'm going for the larger dog, here) is hidden behind the average sized trunk. So's a sitting one--and that's how they alert. They don't bark and scratch your paint--they simply ..... SIT DOWN.

Keep defending this guy. I'm betting he treated those cops like he treated this churchgoer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdtJwg_8aG8&feature=related

That's probably what aroused the suspicions of the officers--a flash-temper, pugnacious attitude, you know, like people on meth often have. He also refused to exit his vehicle--my guess is the cops may have thought he was high on something, if his behavior was at all like it is on his YOUTUBE hatefest videos.

He easily could have continued to refuse the search while complying with the request to exit the vehicle, but he was the one who locked himself in that car.

Smells like a publicity stunt to me. Bet he's getting more hits on his hate-fest sermons now than ever!

[Ozymanithrax]

34. The guy was stupid...

When the police told him he was under arrest and he did not comply he was resisting arrest.

He should understand that right wing politics have repercussions.

[MADem]

41. They asked him to exit his vehicle.

He could have continued to deny them the right to seach his car while complying with their request.

If you look at some of his flaky sermons, he's got some real issues. If he interacted with the BP or the state police with half the attitude that he takes to that cheap lectern that serves as his pulpit in his half-baked "church," it would not surprise me if they thought the guy was high on meth or something.

[ooglymoogly]

43. MAdam you are sosooooo wrong and so smug about being wrong.

Does not matter that this guy is an idiot. What happened to him was akin to Nazism and it is enablers like you who will bring authoritarianism full on.

[MADem]

44. No, it wasn't. You're being hyperbolic. You are also assuming a great deal.

A fellow with a reputation for being obstreperous got into an altercation at a border patrol roving checkpoint.

That is ALL that is "known." Nothing else is. Everything else is hearsay.

If anyone is being smug, it's you, acting as if you were Edward R. Morrow on the scene, and "knowing" that this guy's rights were violated.

You're also the one being a name-calling blowhard, suggesting that I'm an "enabler" who will bring on Nazism (note--if you bring up Nazis or Hitler in a discussion to prove your point, you lose. It' a rule) or authoritarianism.

I've said, over and over again (despite the fact that this guy is a crazed, rightwing, hatemonger racist--and I can PROVE that) that I have no problem waiting for the judge.

You, OTOH, want to take the word of an insane racist as to what occurred, absent any objective evidence, and denigrate a member of DU while so doing.

What does that say about YOU? Hmmmmmmmmmm?

[ooglymoogly]

55. Hmmmm just let me think ont.......there are many documented cases

of this behavior by the constabulary; To the point that it is not surprising to anyone it may have happened here; Perhaps made a little stronger by nothing found in the car. All you have in your corner is that it is a known fact that this guy is not mentally sound and that he hates O and is a raging rwinger, which normally should have endeared him to the cops.

[MADem]

57. What a stupid argument. Some few do it, therefore ALL must do it.

Gee, there are sexual predators on the INTERNET...does that mean you're one?

Talk about shoddy logic!

This man was described by DPS and the BP as being "combative."

BP didn't arrest him OR taser him, DPS did.

He did not file a complaint with EITHER agency. That, to me, is quite telling. You'd think his lawyer would have "gotten right on that" if he'd had a case.

[ooglymoogly]

67. Only in Georg Orwells books does "many" eqate to "a few". nt

[MADem]

71. When you have a population of a billion, thousands are a "few."

There are many, many law enforcement personnel in this country. A very small minority of the total are assholes.


Broad brushes don't make you look clever. They make it look like you can't handle the finer work.

[ooglymoogly]

73. Your exaggerations are well suited to your arguments.

I believe the count is in the 303 millions. Police altercations occur in only .30-.50%. of the population; more than the rest of the world put together. Ask one of those thousands who have been brutalized by the police if they are few in number. We have more incarcerated for non violent "crimes" than all the rest of the world put together yet we are 5% of the worlds population. First they jackbooted the door of the guy down the road and I said nothing etc.

[MADem]

88. You're not too bright, are you? My point is that a fraction can be a large number,

but when juxtaposed with the whole, it's a small percentage.

I wasn't intending to suggest that there are a billion police officers or people in the USA.

So put that aside, if you actually were busily wrapping your head around that idea.

Your arguments, dear, are crap. You haven't proven a single point. You simply engage in inective and accusation, while you defend a one-sided accusation that seems to be falling apart as the days go by.

And don't even TRY using the first line of a poem that talks about a human calamity you couldn't, apparently, even comprehend. You're too busy defending the Jewhating pastor, and you've got the stones to try and use that line?

What chutzpah! You plainly have no shame.

[ooglymoogly]

90. Frankly my dear I have not been busy putting my head around any of your

simple headed "ideas"....
I don't give a dam about any of what you grandly call "ideas". But lets face it there are facts and there are straw men posed as facts...I will however own up to the gift of a limited but adequate brain which I exercise all to infrequently and sometimes just for the fun of pirouetting on foolish peoples heads.

[MADem]

102. No, there aren't. You're taking the side of a guy who is making

claims, who also has a presence on the net as a racebaiting hater and a hothead, and convicting the BP (who didn't "do" the arrest) without any evidence at all--just the hearsay of a guy who has several hours of footage up on YT, showing him acting like a crazy aggressive ass.

Pirouetting on foolish peoples (SIC) heads? Is that your code for "trolling?"

I shoulda known.

[ooglymoogly]

64. WP

[info being]

100. I'm sure some smug jackass will say the same thing about you...

...when you're having a bad day and the same things happen to you.

[info being]

99. Your posts here disgust me

Go on blaming the victim. What a petty, immature attitude you have on this matter. Try to see the bigger picture that we ought to resist Totalitarianism.

[MADem]

111. What "victim?" See, you're doing it. You don't know that he was a

victim, yet you assume he is.

If anyone's petty and immature, it's you--and you just proved it with that post of yours.

I see the bigger picture, and believe me, you're an interesting part of it.

[PatrynXX]

53. He's 8 months too late

where was he during the RNC convention?? He's lucky he's around just to talk about it

[MADem]

59. He was probably ATTENDING it. He's a wingnut who hates Jews and Obama. NT

[Divine Discontent]

78. here's one short clip he has where he is being questioned (from what it looks like)

it is his video from his camera or phone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t3qXo-nWP0&feature=PlayList&p=411D86B36B802F1D&index=13

anyhow, yes, I agree with you in this discussion MADem - he is nutty as SIN! I watched a couple of his vids, my Lord is he bonkers. Now, regarding what happened - they went overboard, as is usual for people wearing badges, way overboard (if his story of not resisting after being tazered is true), but, I guess it's wise, because of the Supreme Court's decision against civilian rights in roadside stops, that you do as they say and sue if you feel your rights were ignored.

Sadly, I see that the two agencies involved are blaming each other or such, and I can see him getting money out of this - I hope not - because as weird as this man is, I don't want him given a bigger platform to preach his NUTTY hate (and I mean nutty folks, his vids are almost unbearable and he sounds unstable).

I wonder if he's on something! ha... sure acts it. Certainly is full of himself. But then again, so are many cops/customs agents. I hope something good comes out of this without him getting a damn dime!

take care

Divine Discontent (themartyred)

[MADem]

84. That guy was LAUGHING when he said that, like he was humoring a nutcase

who said something like "You can't prove I have a bomb in here or want to kill (fill in political figure."

That's a few seconds of video. The expression on that guy's face suggests that he actually thinks he is dealing with a FRUITCAKE, not a terrorist. There's no context to that clip at all--and I believe it was deliberately edited, and that was the only bit that could possibly be construed as even remotely damning.

That guy had better understand that if he uploaded it or sent the full recording anywhere, those cops CAN retrieve it. I'll bet what happened before and after what we saw in that little snippet offers a lot of context that we're not seeing in that teeny bit of edited video.

If all cops were as "scary" as that smiling fellow, I think we'd be living in Mister Rogers' Neighborhood.

The pastor also sounds like he's spoiling for a fight.

Frankly, if the cop asked him to move his car for secondary screening, and the guy refused, I'd think he had a bomb in the car, and was a terrorist, myself. We can't tell if that's what was happening, because the clip is so short. It would not surprise me if that's exactly what was happening in that clip.

[Klimmer777]

66. The Border Patrol agents and Arizona police officers are wrong . . .

I don't care if you think the guy is a Loon. His Constitutional Rights were violated --- period. We should all care about that. Doesn't matter if you are an all knowing Liberal or an ignorant Republican. Our Constitutional Rights protect everyone.

I completely agree with JDpriestly. No true Christian who knows their Bible and has true faith in Christ can condone torture and this kind of treatment. Personally, I'm a Christian. I'm an Independent who about 99.99% of the time votes Democrat. I voted for Gore, Kerry, and now Obama. I'm a member of the ACLU. This evil has to be rooted-out. We have to have our Constitution and Bill of Rights fully restored. All forms of the Patriot Act are unconstitutional.

MADem, not sure where you are coming from? I disagree with you on nearly all grounds.

I know Cops can go bad. Back in 1978 or so, I was on a climbing and camping trip with a close friend from San Diego. We took my Toyota pick-up and made our way up through several National Parks, climbing and hiking along the way. Finally, our trip was coming to an end as we were driving back to San Diego from Yellowstone National Park, we drove through Bluff, Utah. On the outskirts of town after driving through, there was a road block set-up and they were stopping each car. At this time I can't remember if they were Utah State Police, Highway Patrol or what have you, but as we drove up and were stopped, the Police Officer said that he needed to check the registration of the truck and match it up with the car stickers/tags in the door frame. I said, "No problem," gave him the registration from the glove-box and opened the door to allow him to look.

Now mind you we had long hair, we were from SoCal, and we were in high school. And here we are out in the middle of nowhere, Bluff, Utah, so what are ya gonna do?

While he was kneeling down and looking at the stickers, he reaches down below my feet and off the floor-board picks up a yellow seed, or grain, from natural weeds from my boots, then says he has found evidence of Marijuana and will now have to search the entire truck and asks us to get out. My friend and I both look at each other with saucer sized eyes and our mouths agape and we quickly comply.

My friend and I are friends from our Church youth group. We are absolutely clean. We didn't do any stuff like that at the time. Nothing. So the cop begins to search. I open the back shell and both my friend and I go out of our way to open things for him to have a look. It got to the point we were opening things for him that he didn't and we were saying, "Hey you haven't checked in here yet!" Finally, the cop turns to his partner and says, "They don't have any thing, let's let them go."

Finally, driving away, my friend tells me he was hoping they were going to haul us in. It just would have taken one phone call to my friend's father who was a pilot for the DEA. I had seen many pictures at my friends house over the years showing his dad after a bust in disguise with a big bicycle bar mustache holding up huge bags of Cocaine grinning from ear-to-ear. His dad was out there in the thick of things. All Hell Fire and Brimstone would have come down on that Bluff, Utah Police Station.

The point is, cops can make up crap, plant evidence or worse.

This story of the pastor stopped for no reason and asked to get out (I know how he feels), and then being beaten with a tazer and mistreated and his Constitutional Rights tossed out the window is clearly a massive abuse.

[MADem]

86. This man is not a Christian--unless you reallly think that his racist, crazy

"Jews are the antichrist," "Jesus wore pants" and "pissing" sermons constitute Christianity in any "not insane" form?

I think the reason this guy hasn't filed a complaint is because the video in its totality (not a heavily edited ten second snip) is on the side of the BP and the Staties.

Yes, cops can make up crap. But not all cops do that. Most don't, actually--but that's no fun (everyone wants to paint the police as evil "others," when they're recruited from....US. Yes, US).

Not all people arriving at roadblocks are sweethearts, either. If this guy was half as belligerent as he is in church, I'd be on my guard if I were a cop, too.

[edc]

77. Power

A tazer is a license to kill. When the cop says, "You're under arrest. Get out of the car." Get out of the car! Lots of cops are sadistic and would love nothing better than an excuse to work you over. They have utter disdain for your civil rights, and they aren't afraid to be sued either. Also, refusal to comply after being arrested puts the good cops in a bad spot and compels them to use force to restrain you. Right or wrong, never fuck with armed people.

[Darkhawk32]

81. I'M SURE HE HELPED CREATE THE CONDITIONS THAT LED TO THIS.

forgive me if I don't shed a tear for him.

[trthnd4jstc]

85. What like insisting that his constitutional rights not be abridged? End The Tyranny of Fascism!

There is no reason why our nation should be a Fascist Tyranny. End the rule of the few over the many. End unrestricted police searches. Return to the Social Contract, our Constitution, which prohibits warrant-less search and seizures. End the Patriot Acts' oppression over the people of America! I fought for this nation, and our constitution, and so did many of my ancestors. This crap, and all tyranny and oppression pisses me off, and anyone who loves the Constitution should be pissed off. Fascism should not be allowed. Not whatsoever!

[info being]

98. The guy is a victim of the Totalitarian state...

...and half of you guys are mocking him. I stand firmly with him.

[bluebellbaby]

107. I've tried to defend the American Citizen and our Constitution but...

Then I've been blasted for it...here....!

[angstlessk]

101. I drove to Calif from VA via the southern route and was stopped somewhere

out west because of transporting 'plants that could endanger the indigenous plants of the area'. Hell, I was not suspicious or even thought anything about it. I was driving a Datsun 210 towing a small U-Haul trailer. They asked a few questions, looked around the inside of the vehicle and we moved on. Hell, now I recon they were looking for drug traffickers but I was so naive it never occurred to me at the time. Sometimes ignorance IS truly bliss?

[MADem]

112. I got stopped going into CA (with CA oranges bought in UTAH)

They said I couldn't take 'em in, but they let me park and eat them. They were delicious.

No car search, though--they asked if I had plants/fruits and I said yep. I think it was a fruit fly thing. Didn't bother me to do it--I happen to like fruits and vegetables, and I don't mind doing my bit to protect the crops.

[angstlessk]

122. they did not really search our car either...more of a casual peek..it may have

been the U-Haul on the back of a Datsun 210...actually they should have stopped me from towing a trailer with such a small compact car, but they cared not?

[MADem]

123. They might have thought you had a few houseplants in there--as people

UHauling their household goods sometimes do...."Oh, I just can't give up that fern/palm tree/whatever..." so they toss it in the back and say "Well, if it makes it, it makes it!"